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Oh boy. I can’t wait to read the comments on this one.
I want song titles and lyrics represented in silly charts, not divisive stuff like this.
*waits, drooling in anticipation*
Joolz is a Foolz :<
.
He/she represented him/herself as a religious person.
.
Religion has it’s uses like.. don’t drink the red water! … but other then that, yeah, it’s fantasy.
.
*waits, drooling in anticipation for someone to correct my wicked ways*
correct your wicked ways!!!!!
Your wicked ways will be corrected once you die a terrible death and burn in Hell for eternity. ;-D
I’ll make a Hell just for you, Suzie Q. Hate in the name of Love is still Hate. Burn.
is it not a sin to pretend to be God. also, should not we judge no lest we be judged. with that in mind, i do not know how much your God will appreciate having its identity stolen by a half-wit.
rawr?
If the “facts” from the “factual” Bible are correct in this graph, why would it be divisive?
No one will agree on everything with any other person.
That being said, despite your beliefs- many occurrences in life, for better or worse, are often results of prior decisions and actions.
Also, no person is an island. Thus even if someone managed to be perfect, others would not thereby affecting ’someone’.
So please… before anyone blames anything on God OR a lack of divinity/higher power, consider events leading up prior as well as other outside factors. Yes bad things happen but so do good things as well.
Tim Kasher is an island
best comment ever
You are now my very favorite person.
“THE MARRRTYYRRRRRRRRR”
Furthermore, I’m so Indie that I went to an Indie show underground, and alone. After the show I killed the band so no one else would know about them but me.
I think Marvin Gay’s dad was indie.
el. oh. el.
oh. emm. gee.
Oh I heartily concur with your sentiments. The Holocaust, for example, might have looked fairly grisly, but it wasn’t all bad – I doubt “Fiddler On The Roof” would ever have been made otherwise…..
Well done on proving that aethists can be as cruel, and defiant that ‘there viewpoint is the only right one’ as fundamentalists.
Fundamentalist Atheists!
There are hard core people of every religion (or every lack of religion). I believe that phrase can really apply to anyone…
“Proving that ______ can be as cruel, and defiant that ‘there viewpoint is the only right one’ as fundamentalists.”
Well done on picking up on the powerful sarcasm.
Well done picking up your massive head.
hoo-ray for the ignorant christian! It doesn’t matter how faithful to your religion you are, you still can’t spell.
Oh, I DO hope that was sarcastic…
Or “The Diary of Anne Frank” such a blockbuster!
im really anticipating the sequel
I have some bad news for you…
thats a sad book, i think the devil had something to do with her death
um, what?
she was jewish
Fiddler On The Roof was written in 1905 and was based in Tsarist Russia. It had nothing to do with the annihilation of European Jews.
Do you hear that?
It’s the sound of Mark getting completely owned.
My God! I’ve heard of this sound, but have never before experienced it’s full splendour!
Of course! Also, we wouldn’t have had “Schindlers List.” Thanks for the perspective, Mark!
aloneangel, you are not alone on this answer. Your brothers and sisters all agree. Please keep sharing your thoughts. God bless. richard.
… obviously doesn’t “get it”
aloneangel, you are not alone on this answer. Your brothers and sisters all agree. Please keep sharing your thoughts. God bless. richard
God Bless Who???
It’s always “God Bless America” or this team or that person. correct me if i’m wrong but God blessing someone seems to be at someone else’s expense.
lol such is the way of christianity, wait, of humanity in general. c’mon, surely you’ve learned this by now? let’s look specifically at christianity. as a whole, generalized and stereotype, christians are terrorists. look at the KKK. their roots started in God fearing christians. look at the holy crusades. “Though shalt not kill, unless I do it and give God credit!” yea, thats justification for ya
now look at muslims. see a common trend? they’re doing just as we did, only we did it hundreds of years ago. So does that mean that we’re more advanced terrorists?
human beings in general suck. Individuals have the potential to be decent, but the human race as a whole is what depresses me.
Amen!
(or some other, more appropriate term with a similar meaning)
i agree, and im not trying to argue, but if you look at the ten commandments in hebrew youll actually see that it says thou shalt not MURDER. and that is what the crusads were, mass murder
How about this one, Thou shall not commit adultery? Who knocked up Mary, it sure wasn’t her husband.
Damned fucking right, Thousands of my Ancestors in Scandinavia were slaughtered and when? – My brothers who would defend them were all out plundering a living!
God bless is a way of saying god bless you. You hear it frequently in the South
Godspeed
Christians who post their views on the internet= passive-aggressive+holier-than-thou. This is next to Godliness!
Face it people, as long as you accept it by faith, stop trying to bring reason into it, or get into discussions where reason is being invoked. Cause what you are arguing is not bound to rules of reason, and it’s annoying to the rest of us.
OMG OMG OMG! This graph that someone made says something I don’t agree with! I know it’s just a joke, but what should I do?!?!?!?!? FREAK OUT!!!! OMG! God doesn’t kill people! Go Team Jesus!!!!
OMG OMG OMG!!! *Kills Sarah*
OMG OMG OMG! Good Girl.
:: Gives Emily a Cheezeburger ::
OMG OMG OMG! I WANT A CHEEZEBURGER!!
*Shoots Sarah again for safeness!*
is this what america is coming too? wait that cheeseburger looks good…
*PUNCH*
NO. MY cheesburger!
*takes out AK-47* mai cheezburger *shoots sheep* lawl
“OMG OMG OM…God?”
*God smites and kills all present…and then takes cheezeburger*
Now why would god want a cheezburger? since it is so good and powerful it could just make one out of something random
haha nah he could just make it out of nothin cause hes that cool
If Jesus made a team, he’d pick you last.
actually God killed lots of people. He even turned a lady into a pillar of salt. God killed ppeople, he had his reasons, but he did. Also he created Chuck Norris who kills lots of people
Fool! You realize that just justifies murder for everyone else? God can commit murder even though he abolishes it, and you agree with God, saying that he can do as he will. If God, the “greatest, all knowing, >>all loving<<, and all powerful creature” can commit murder, then we have the greatest hypocrisy of all time. If such a deity can break the rules, WHY CANT I?
The Christian God is a false deity, after looking through the bible quite a bit there are WAY too many inconsistencies in the bible, especially during “The Garden of Eden”.
TL;DR
you blindly worship your god without considering the drawbacks.
INB4 “Atheist faggot”, as I’m not a faggot, nor am I an Atheist. and regardless starting a pointless hateful comment thread would just show how idiotic you are. (AND I KNOW HOW TO INB4, IM JUST A LAZY BITCH)
Yes, God killed loads of people. Why? CAUSE HE CAN! God made the rules us not for himself. So yeah, I am a religious freak, and yes I do love a god who kills people. But he kills with style. Also, Why the hell can’t he kill what he created?
If you build something who the hell has the right to tell you not to do it?
Enjoy hell
Thank you, I will.
SEND MY LOVE A LETTERBOMB.
sry couldnt help it.
“Also, Why the hell can’t he kill what he created?
If you build something who the hell has the right to tell you not to do it?”
I can’t wait to use this one on my children. “Yeah, I created you. Clean your room, or I’ll kill you. What? No, it’s legal. I made you.”
WOOOOO you are awesome
n___n *applauze*
You believe in Hell, I will believe in having a Hell of a time. Say hi to your pretend God for me when he comes to save you on his Unicorn
Hey, DigitalSeren, your bus to Hell will be here tomorrow. The time will come when you beg all of us Christians for forgiveness. According to God, we’ll give it to you, but that’s all you get.
Why would an atheist go to hell? Hell exists to those who believe in it.
Beg US?!?! Hahaha. Now, there is the truth at last. Trying to glom on the almighty’s power eh?
Judge not… and all that. Question authority.. in all forms. If your God is real, he can take a little close scrutiny.
ok WOW im a christian and jeez that is NOT how it works, it won’t be us they’re answering too it will be God
so if i have a kid a can kill it and
That’s the general idea. nwn Go for it~! OwO
The government does! He needs a permit! Heheh….Religion fails.
That is the most retarded fucking thing I have ever heard.
God is perfect, and pure good. therefore, anything he does is for the betterment of humanity, or the special few who worship him. Or the special many. Whatever. The point is, he cannot commit sin, so regardless of what you felt, feel, or will feel, it wasn’t murder. Also, because I enjoy trolling, and being contrary, ATHEIST FAGGOT =D
I thought Chaos was the mother of God. If God was created from Chaos he/she is filled with sin. God not beeing able to sin becuase he/she defined sin outside of his/her own realm and actions is the same as a country that claims it can torture if they redifine torture outside of the realm in which they are doing it. If you turn someone into salt you have murdered, which in the bible is a sin (even if God does it).
Rock on.
Atheist faggot?
Pfft.
You’re going to hell for that one.
I have a question, and, atheist-faggot-hater, I would like you to answer.
Why is it that God sees homosexuality as unnatural, whereas he believes that a man walking on water and turning water into wine etc is very much natural?
lol. to all of you reading WAT’s comment, he has successfully wasted three minutes of all of your times. good job man. i’ve only succeeded at fifteen seconds. need a scoreboard for this….to all of you who actually cared, i salute your patience but frown at your life. <—note the period at the end of the sentence.
We read theirs for the same reason we’re reading yours. We’re bored. Be prejudiced somewhere else.
What, I ask, are the benefits of not believing in at least some form of higher power?
I mean, if there was no God, then there would be no reason to help anyone else out,
no reason not to be an a****** to anyone, no reason to keep on living. And yet, people continue to show each other kindness, continue to dedicate their lives to the service of others. Furthermore, without a creative force, how did all this come to be? I mean, that big ball o’ matter that existed right before the Big Bang had to itself be created, right?
God loves you, regardless of you beliefs, your actions, or your thoughts.
Because life is quite fun. Given it’s quite fun, and we all have to live together (pending spaceships), we might as well be nice to each other. Is it really that hard for you to be nice without some bearded dude in the sky to tell you to clean your bedroom? Sheesh.
I suppose that’s why YOUR room is such a mess(not to mention that you’re one of the people who needs to be forced to be nice; listen to yourself).
Have fun in Hell. Tell all your little demon friends I said hi.
Really? You are an evil, evil person for only doing good things for god. Do it for the greater good man! It’s all as much glory with half as much hassle!
But how do we define “the greater good” without some larger moral standards? What is nice? What is good? In other cultures, abusing children and raping women may be considered fine. In ours it isn’t and how do we make that distinction? From our laws, which came from Christianity.
Being nice to others doesn’t really matter, without our morals. If we didn’t have those standards and laws that make up our viewpoints (like murder is wrong and being kind is good) then we could do whatever we wanted and no one would care.
Also, God killed people back in the day because they didn’t follow his laws and they were messing up his creation. Until Jesus came, there was no way to get into God’s good graces other than being perfect. But that’s a whole other theological discussion.
We(Christians) will be rewarded later on. You, on the other hand……
Will be rewarded ASAP.
Wow, does that fucking blindfold give you rashes?
You are nice to people because God makes you.
I am nice to people because I am a nice person.
GOD is not the reason why, the reason is in neurological processes. But, rest assured, some studies have shown that some people are neurologically “doomed” to believe in a higher power, you really can’t help it. I can’t help not believing…
I like you.
Can I have a hug?
x3
START EVOLVING DAMMIT! there is only war because our technology has advanced farther and faster than our evolution. with our technology, we should be a race of super beings. oh wait, evolution isnt real! all the proof was put there by god to test our faith, right? DID GOD WRITE THE BIBLE?!!? NO! AAAAH!!! sry i flipped out
*afterthought* we have become greedy because society has also advanced quickly
So you’re saying that if god doesn’t exist, there would be no reason to help others? So you help others just because you think it will take you to a place nobody has proof exists? Thats pretty stupid, you should be nice to people just to feel good about yourself and that you made anothers life better.
Who the fuck could argue with what this guy just said? haha
You are really sad. You can’t be nice to someone for the sake of being nice? You can’t live on for those who depend on you, or to make a contribution to society?
I’m disgusted with people like you who can’t do things for something we all know is real, instead of for a “higher being” that does nothing for us in times of need.
As a Christian, I know that you’re on God’s hitlist.
I have to agree with you on that one. Keep it up, Sarah.
lol i guss some people would say god has a right. i think that there full of it. : )
hooray for straw men!
Tell the devil i said hi.
u rock cause of that comment……….. yeah this is really stupid. adn you no why he killed that many people? because they dishonered him adn told lies just like all you people who like this lol adn made lols like it are also doing. why can’t you make lols about funny stuff it stuff that is just funny because it is so true like most lolzez? why must you offend people because it makes you feel important adn special? adn all you people who think im one of those stupid idiots that try to tell people what to think think agian. Because im not. if you want to say anything about my comment just slap it down adn it will email me…. but leave your own email so i can talk to you. hey, i may be only a 13 year old, but i feel offended by this crap. if no one ever did stuff like this, maybe god wouldn’t have had to kill so many. you know…..im a christain, adn this stuff just doesn’t work for me. i love to laugh adn have fun adn make lolzez, but if this is your stuff…. don;t expect everyone to love you.
why are you offended by the truth?
well – according to the bible after the flood he stopped massmurdering the whole population, but that doesn’t make any difference….
plus – if you leave the bible aside and count only those who were murdered in the name of god or satan you would get almost the same results.
If you are 13 years old, pay attention to school first. I am offended by your terrible writing.
You, are crystal clear proof that retards shouldn’t have the internet.
I agree.
With Rachael.
I lol’d.
Me too!
definitely.
as did i. to be fair, many of the comments telling us how to view this and blah blah
are quite funny, as well…. its there in a bar graph, read it, funny
naughty god
Naughty GOD? I’ll bet you’ve done something worse in the past five minutes.
And I bet in the past five minutes, you’ve been scrolling down and finding every last goddamn (ooooops, that insults God, doesn’t it? Naughty, naughty me. I’m going to hell. I’ll be sure to tell the devil you said “hi”, don’t worry) comment made by a atheist/non-Christian and replying with “OMG HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT YOU’RE GOING TO HELL TELL THE DEVIL I SAID HI.”
Don’t go to funny sites if you can’t take a joke.
I lol’d too.
I didn’t see the humor in the graph, but your comment made me chuckle.
this isn;t a joke this is offencive. as i stated in another comment, i like to have fun adn stuff, i like to make lolzez adn stuff…. but im a christian….. it just doesnt work for me. Adn i can;t let a day pass where i look up at god adn say “hey god, i just helped people make fun of you! yeah, you made the whole word adn everything in it adn even myself, but who cares! ill go my own way! ill say ph, i could live without god!” i just can;t do that. Adn how all you people here can, i don;t know. When i look down from heaven one day, ill think ” i told you, why didn;t you trust me when you had a chance?” adn youll ssay ” we regret it! we’re sorry! we didn;t know!”………………………… i told you. no matter how much you make fun of me…….. i told you. you can;t say you didn;t know. you might say im way to serious of a little joke, but you wont see it like that later….. you wont. you’ll think “how could i be so stupid”………teenagers aren’t stupid, you know. i think you might want to believe me. i want comments —- adn leav your email so i can email you back. thanks…………………..
People might be more inclined to read your comments if you could/would type, spell, and punctuate properly.
Also: Please stop abusing the poor ellipsis like that. It makes baby Jesus cry.
what proof do you have? other than a 2000 year old book, written by people who didnt even know jesus, and that has been constantly translated, edited, and changed time and time again. there have been more holy wars than any other war in all history. there is no god, and if there is, he is a idiot at best, and a sadist at worst for allowing all the horrific things that have happened here to happen. oh, and look, i spelled all this correctly. not that hard to do. i have no complaint with people who have a set of morals, or are humanistic-religious, but it seems a bit silly to have a imaginary friend past the age of 8.
You make teenagers seem really stupid. I, in fact am a teenager too. Learn to write before you make an argument. I also help people for the “greater cause”, but I guess saying I did it for god is technically the same except with an extra step. I’ll admit, whoever made the bible is really smart for making rules to stop mankind to stop killing each other, but there comes along the “sorta” smart people who believes in the book too much and starts killing people over it. As long as you don’t try and kill me for not believing in god, I’m fine with you.
1st. LEARN TO TYPE! im not attacking you for that just because i dont like you, but please, its kinda hard to read
2nd: gumbosplat@gmail.com
3rd: proof of god? or is it just test6ing our faith?
4th: if you werent raised to be so afraid of sex (btw lust is sin, where you cant control you yearning for sex, not just enjoying it and having it for other things besides reproductin)and learned biology instead of going to a private catholic school, you would know that both your parents made you, not god.
5th: do you beleive in a divine plan? doesnt that cancel pout free will?
6th: not mad at you, just ranting sorry.
Obvious troll is obvious.
You are so right. At least someone here has a working brain. I’m a Christian, too. And I don’t think it’s fair to God for people to do those things against him.
You guys just don’t understand, do you?
I know you don’t, because I used to think like that. I know exactly what’s going through your head. You think that everyone in the world agrees with you on some basic level and will someday come around to your way of thought. It never occurs to you that other people really, truly, actually have different faiths and religions and don’t hold your Bible and your God to be absolute truth.
Why is it so hard to live and let live? Oh, I know, because God told you to convert the heathens. Well, I’ll let you in on a secret. The best way to do that is NOT to treat us like our intellects and our beliefs are second-class just because we disagree. Come to us like equals, and then maybe we can share information. Condescension is the fastest way to engender hate and close-mindedness to whatever you are trying to say.
God doesn’t like you, because you’re *slightly* annoying.
I’m Christian
Fuck you
This = epic.
I think rakudave should have distinguished between (a)people killed by God, (b) people killed in the name of God, and (c) people killed by the Israelites who claimed that God told them to kill.
However, if we did just consider the great flood of Genesis, then a person would still have to concede that the number is pretty high (assuming that it was a world-wide flood). In this case, the graph would be accurate, but the number would off since we would know exactly how many people were killed in the flood.
and of course the last sentence should read “…we would not know…” sorry for the omission.
because you know, everything else in the bible we “know exactly” happened and it should all be taken literally
That made me lmao
me too, these comments are LOLtastic
God killed the people during the flood that were under the influence of Satan so it’s Satan’s fault that God killed them.
yes, but allegedly the flood covered the entire planet. It is statistically impossible for every single person on the planet to have been under the influence of satan.
Yeah… Noah.
actually everyone sins even if they dont know it
Hahaha pwn’d by the transitive property!
omg.
Exactly!
God must hate us a lot…
No! No, he doesn’t! All those high- and mighty fundamentalists you see on TV all the time, blasting us for our sinful ways and how God’s going to brig down his wrath on us if we don’t repent? They don’t get it! God loves us- all of us. He wants to be closer to us, to have a relationship with us. I may only be 15, but I have seen God’s love and mercy at work all over the world, even- no, especialy- in places where the situation seems so desperate one could be forgiven for assuming God had abandoned the place.
Just ask for forgiveness. That’s all he needs.
And if you don’t ask for forgiveness then he’ll kinda forget how much he loves you and let you burn instead! go god!
forgiveness for what? being human? god has a serious grudge against his two imaginary friends adam and eve at the beginning of time. original sin my ass. do babies that die without being baptised go to hell? is that a sin, to be born? because sex is a in? no, LUST is a sin, where you cant control your desire for sex! sorry, im ranting again -.-
AND WHAT ABOUT WAR? AND FAMINE? AND DISEASE? why doesnt he make human life a utopia? why is the devil still around, why doesnt he smite the devil? is he that powerles?? AAAAH im rantin sry
Out of all the people in this thread, you may be the only one who gets what Jesus was trying to say.
I’m not a Christian any more. But I still believe in Jesus. I wish all of the Christians in the world had your childlike faith. Maybe then I could belong again.
except it was not “statistically” impossible in those days where they felt abandoned by God after the garden of Eden. But if they would have at least listened to Noah instead of all their manslaughter and whore monger ways they would have been saved from the flood.
What a load of male bovine dung.
Just a quick update for those that missed the last few centuries;
There was no global flood, and humans evolved from chimpanzee like primates, and weren’t in fact created by YHWH the sociopathic sky-fairy.
It’s a book. What harm is done in poking fun at it?
Aye aye.
Poking fun is always a fun pastime, especially at religion.
Religion well and truly deserves it.
And anyway, there was a flood – there’s a river basin in Europe that’s dry most of the year, but floods for a year or so ever few hundred years. Can’t reemember what it’s called though…
But yes – it wasn’t God’s doing, and it wasn’t quite global.
Anyway, here’s a question for all those who believe the story of Noah – where did all the water come from, and where did it go? Did God just magic it up from his magic hat?
The unicorns gathered it up in their magic chariots and flew into the sky toward their candy utopia.
Uhmm God created you if you are saying He exists, thus, if thats the case, he could sneeze and macabre everything you hold dear, incl. your silly little hate to everything in life just because you got raped constantly by some family member for a decade or so. So go ahead, be a religious hater, atleast I know where I’m going when I die, be it Hell or Heaven, I know I’m going somewhere.
Oh, and wtf are you to use your dads pc to try and contradict a book so old its time of origin is unknown?
wow, that’s pretty dark…
If it’s origin is unknown, how can we trust it?
Lovely, lovely. Poking fun at child abuse victims is a great way to win more followers to your trumped-up, vindictive way of thought. Jesus is ashamed of you.
Well, if you want to think of it that way, then yes, he did. God can do that.
Thank you.
For once, someone with SOME sense of what’s real and what’s not. ><
Psst – it’s just a story. It didn’t actually happen, you see. There were
people in China at the time, and their history goes back further than the
Israelites. Surely China would have noticed if everyone died in a flood,
right? But they didn’t, because it’s a myth.
Actually China did notice the flood and they wrote their own version of it.
Only they were warned by a dragon. The people of Australia and Mexico
of that time also had their own account. The big difference between the
other stories and the biblical version is that the story of Noah continues to
tell of his sin. The other stories ended with unrealistic conclusions usually
giving the character of the story immortality.
more unrealistic than, say, a giant wooden boat carrying a shit load of animanla and a million year old man coming to rest at the top of a mountain?
Yeah, was once reading a book by Gerald Durrell, the British naturalist who used to collect animals for zoos, and then coming home by ship from one such expedition in Africa (and just covering one small region at that). And seeing that squeeking, chirruping, hooting, shrieking etc mass of animals they had loaded on the ship he and his colleague came to conclusion that the Noah’s arch would had gone down to bottom even with one thousand’s of the amount of species, even with taking just a pair from each…
Well, theoreticaly, building a boat like that was absolutely possible. And Moses was not a million years old, though we all know he was certainly quite old by the time that the Ark landed again. Through God, all things are possible.
Basic computer knowledge that everyone should know by now: Don’t presse enter after every line!
Now, that’s assuming that they meant EVERYONE everyone. However, would the ancient Israelites have known about or had contact with the ancient Chinese or Native Americans? No, of course not. So a flood that killed off much of the Middle East would have seemed to have destroyed the entire Earth to them.
oh for christs sake take a joke u moron
Don’t go to funny sites if you can’t take people who can’t take a joke
agree! don’t go to funny sites during your period or after you’ve had the sh*t beaten out of you in Gears of War.
HEY! I do NOT have PMS!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!1
I think it is appalling that people would excuse the genocide enacted by “God” and justify their deaths because they were “influenced” by Satan. And that is if what happened in the Bible even really happened. I really just view the whole story as Christianity’s fear tactics to get believers, much like the republican party. If God has to rule with an iron fist and fear, then he/she isn’t really worth believing in.
why don’t you read the first few chapters of genesis in the Bible and look at all the things on earth that have somehow disappeared (Atlantis) and all of the other things that science has no answer for.
TRY and prove the Bible wrong, but you will never find a single thing wrong
with it
if you still don’t believe it, wait for the end of the world and you can decide
whether or not God is real, if not you will seek death, and not find it. (in the end, of course)
Um, how about “The earth was created in 7 days” with the human race on day 6… How about the age of the earth being Waaaahaaaay older than the several thousand years intimated by the bible, and this is before we’ve even gotten as far as Exoddus.
Before blasting me, while I may be an “unbeliever”, I used to be a Christian, went to church regularly, helped run services on occasion etc etc. Back then, I believed the bible to be more allegorical than factual, what with the whole evolution/dinosaurs/age of planet thing.
Since then I have seen the light and am now a full blown atheist.
And bravo by the way. I have never seen someone use Atlantis as an argument for the bible being correct, what with it not appearing in the Bible at all. I don’t exactly see how it validates your position.
just because you went to church and helped in the service does not mean that you are a Christian. it’s the relationship that matters, not your actions. I’d thank you to not confuse everyone else about that subject.
Dude, that Atlantis thing is sooooooooo funny! I was thinking the same thing. Wasn’t it that unbeliever Plato who had the analogy concerning Plato? I’m almost certainly wrong on that one, but at least I know that it’s a Greek legend.
possible answer from mormon scripture abraham 4:18 …watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed doesn’t mean it happened in 7 days. maybe the 7 days were planning and the billions of years were things happening…
woops
possible answer from mormon scripture abraham 4:18 “…watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed”. doesn’t mean it happened in 7 days. maybe the 7 days were planning and the billions of years were things happening…
remember, puncuation is important!
The Book of Abraham was “translated” from papyri that had nothing at all to do with Abraham, despite what Joseph Smith said. The papyri in question were typical burial papyri and had nothing to say about Abraham whatsoever. So I’m not real sure that quoting the Book of Abraham from the Book of Mormon is the most credible of sources.
I love how the creation account in Genesis is written. It really isn’t confusing on how long the creation of the universe took. After every day of creation God says, “And there was evening and there was morning, the______ day”. I’m, not really sure how any body can say that these were not 24 hour periods.
9Squirrels, you are amazing. ha. And we went through the exact religious path. I started off at a christian preschool. How terrible it is to brainwash someone so young.
Now, do you really think the ancient Israelites would have been able to comprehend anything about atoms, molecules, the big bang, etc.? I suspect not. It seems to me that God must have decided something along the lines of “Oh, the heck with it. I’ll just tell them something that sounds good and makes sense right now, and then let them use the spirit of curiosity I gave them to figure out how it really happened by themselves.”
The ancient Greeks did, and so did the Indians of the same time period. Granted, they arrived at the idea of atoms, molecules, etc. through philosophy rather than science, but they did come up with it. If they did, there’s no reason the Israelites couldn’t have.
Except, of course, that there was no deity explaining anything, just a bunch of guys making stuff up. Stupid, wrong stuff….
well it wasn’t exactly some hick-town priest in the middle of nowhere who
said “ooh! god just told me the exact way that the molecules expanded
from that tiny bit of mass who knows how many freaking years ago!”
and the thing you call ‘god’ didn’t just pop the idea into
some guy’s head and let it go from there-maybe somebody just thought of the idea naturally, or we found some sort of evidence when we were galloping throughout ye olde Space with our satellites. have you ever thought in your tiny existence (and if you think of your relative size compared to…
hmm, let’s say… Arcturus, you will FINALLY figure out how important you REALLY are in the whole plan of things.) that maybe something happened naturally and not because of some fat guy in white clothes in the clouds (and has anybody ever really explained where”Heaven” is in the skies? and if you’re the kind of person who says that it is invisible to human eye and technology because it is too noble and holy to be noticed by us worshipers down here, maybe that can be fixed as I lay down the whole truth- IT’S NOT THERE!) decided it to? god, if you do believe that, you are the mot narrow minded idiot on this planet. but hey, if you see that that kind of person
night be you, do not despair, you are not alone. the rest of the planet i with you!
seriously? you think that there is nothing wrong with the bible?
skepticsannotatedbible.com
view the site, i suggest you start with the contradictions part.
Then you could move on to a few corkers like rabbits chewing their cud, global floods, rib-counts vs sex. The list isn’t endless (the book has a finite length) but it does go on a bit.
Maybe you haven’t noticed that the cite would be HEAVILY biased. I get that there are inconsistencies with the Bible, but relevant cites would be quite handy. Mkaythnxbai.
Manna, that was easily one of the dumbest statements I’ve read within the last year. That wasn’t just stupid, it was “Jessica Simpson stupid.” Wow. It frightens me that society lets you walk freely and possibly breed.
yo, you too.
Yeah! and the magician!
Someone built a big wooden boat that held 2 of every creature on the planet, floated around a flooded planet for 40 days and then sailed around returning them all to their rightful places. I didn’t have to try very hard to think of that one, but I’m sure there may be a few other things that could possibly be just slightly untrue… or wrong, whatever you want to call it.
Actually, the fundamentalists would hate me for this, but if you allow for the concept of adaptation of the species *and* assume that God created a finite number of animals and allowed them to adapt into the various species we see today, a number of scholars believe it would be possible, if difficult, to accomplish Noah’s feat. Its quite the list of assumptions, but if you had the right givens it would be theoretically possible.
And… well, I think most other contradictions also depend on your givens. The problem becomes difficult when you attempt to calculate for things like the probability of the existence of a God… because there really isn’t an effective way. God either exists, or does not exist, but no one can agree on the criteria for determining whether or not He exists, and I’ve heard a plethora of arguments from both sides that all come short of proving their point. Both a purely atheist and a purely theistic system seem to rely heavily on faith, with atheists having faith that there is not a God, and that if there were, He would manifest whatever behavior the absence of which proves He does not exist, and the theists having faith that there is one, and that they can prove it because He does what they expect.
Again, it may not have been necessary to put on EVERY every animal in the entire world, assuming that my above- noted theory that the flood affected only the Middle Eastern area is at least somewhat true. In addition, how hard would it have been for animals like ducks, geese, etc. that normally thrive in an aquatic or seaside environment to go on living like nothing had really happened? All of a sudden, a lot of space is open on that big ol’ boat.
harry potters better
maybe YOU should read the bible more. If you did, you would start to see all the contradictions in the bible. You are a dumbass.
If I were to run into the streets saying that I went for a magical ride on a unicorn last night, and that unicorn gave me the ability to rise up and overcome all of my problems, not only would i be laughed at, I would be locked up for mental insanity. How is religion any different than that?
Go pray to something that you think exists because some book that says stuff that a guy wrote down saying it happened. As for me, I will be on my way to find a unicorn now, because they exist in Greek books, so they must exist.
i have a question sir/madam, would it not be necessary to prove the existence of something to disprove it? For example, if I were to say that there was no such thing as a 900 year old man who built a 1000 ft long boat, stuck 2 of every animal in the world on it and sailed across a sea of spontaneous appearance while millions of other people died because they refused to believe a senior citizen that more water than ever existed on the earth would come down and kill them all, you would have to prove it first
Erm . . . aint that like saying:
What come first, the chicken or the egg !
egg! because lets say the first true chcken’s name was claudine. claudine’s mother was only .0repeating1% away from being a chicken. so when she laid the egg, it would become the first chicken. oh, but evolution doesnt exist! sorry, i forgot about the overwhelming proof against it
“How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock.” –Psalm 137:9
“Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.” –Hosea 13:16
“He brought out the people who were in it, and cut them with saws and with sharp instruments and with axes. And thus David did to all the cities of the sons of Ammon. Then David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.” –1 Chronicles 20:3
“…then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.” — Exodus 21:6
Should I go on?
Maybe I’m in the wrong thread here. But it seems to me like basic human dignity and morality, which your God *must* have instilled in us because we are all created in God’s image, proves this bullshit wrong.
word… iron fist worked for iraq with Saddam, look at it now… some people just need to be scared into feeling safe
You think the republican party has a monopoly on fear tactics? Every election cycle the democrats start pimping the mantra that the nasty evil repulicans are going to take away everyone’s social security benefits, nevermind the fact that even when republicans had control of the congress and the white house it was never brought up. Is the left-wing kool-aid raspberry or grape flavored?
wrong. it was the people’s fault for following Satan. they are the reason that they died.
But even Satan is under the influence of God so it’s still God’s fault.
Wrong. Satan is not under the influence of God, and neither are we. God gave
us the freedom to choose Him or not.
Anh if you don’t choose HIM then you are defined as “Satan’s follower”
if we’re not under his control, he’s not omnipotent.
He grants us that ability not to be under his control. He gives you the
ability to bethe misguided person that you are. Since apparently this is not
a civilized discussion, but a forum of petty insults I may as well play along.
The reason he gave us this ability is because otherwise our following him would not be returning the love he has for us. We would be no better than machines – and who can be loved by a robot?
So… if we don’t choose HIM… does that mean we don’t like Finnish Goth Rock? Cuz if so… then I choose HIM… I like Finnish Goth Rock
No, you can listen to whatever music you want to. Trust me, I have a close friend who listens to some pretty heavy stuff, but she still has plenty of faith.
Everyone is under the influence of God to a point. God does allow free will and
that is why sin exists because God wants us to choose to love him not to be
programmed to like robots.
So anyone that doesn’t follow/believe in God is just a robot? Wouldn’t doing what God told you to do make his/her followers robots?
Well, considering that Satan (Sammael) didn’t appear until the New Testament, I guess that whole “influence of Satan” thing just doesn’t apply.
Specific references to the characteristics and actions of Satan are mentioned clearly as early as the book of Job and Ezekiel (that I know of, maybe earlier) if you understand what you are reading, and many believe that Lucifer fell from grace with his angels before the creation of man which many feel clarifies why the oldest still existing copies of Genesis say in chapter 1 verse 2 that the earth was made void and without form and that God fashioned it anew (the translations you see in English don’t put it quite that way) and that the serpent in the garden of Eden was influenced by the devil to seduce Eve. While the present name Satan we all know of may not have been recorded in the Old Testament, he has gone by many names, and the word Satan is just a word in an older language that means ‘adversary’ or ‘enemy’
If god created everything, then he created satan. In either case, god is the source of all blame in the universe since he created it. It’s his toy, he deserves responsibility for what happens to it. The graph seems to be conveying that, if you think god is the creator of everything and benevolent, then think twice, because according to his own doctrine (if you take it literally) he’s a giant douchebag. This is under the assumption that all the data was taken from the bible, which is very possible.
To actually study the Bible would indeed clearly demonstrate that God created Satan, and even knew of all the things he was going to do before he created him. However, to attribute to God the consequences of all that Satan did of his own free will would be like convicting the person who created the gun for all those ever murdered by bullets.
But since God is apparently all-knowing, he would have had to know that Lucifer would betray him and become the good ol’ Satan we know and love.
Therefore, if He existed, we could blame him for Satan and the following flood of “Satan worshippers”.
Furthermore, if God is all-knowing, he already knows everything that was, is and will be. If he already knows the answers, then we wouldn’t have free-will at all. He would know that I would become an atheist. Punishing me for just doing exactly what He knew I would do seems rather lame.
On an unrelated note, LOL!
Thats a good excuse! Dont help them with your divine omnipitant powers!
KILL THEM! SPARE NO MAN WOMAN OR CHILD! I AM GOD! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE MEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
That made me grin. lmao ^_^
The Islamist killed the people at 911 that were under influence of George W so it’s Georg Ws fault…
Much as he’d like to think otherwise, George W. is not God. And I wouldn’t call the people killed on 9/11 “under the influence of George W” anyhow. But thanks for that poor analogy!
Didn’t he have a very low approval rate before that?
Oh, those heathens! doesnt no one know who hijacked the planes? dont start bashing other religions, continue bashing religion itself.
I blame society for all the whackos complaining about this graph cause they
cant take a joke. I also blame the whackos for making me complain about
them. Also I blame god for making me. In fact, I blame everyone. It’s
everyones fault but my own. ( Intended as a joke, if you cant take it then
FUCK OFF )
Actually, it never explicitly states that Satan was involved with the flood. God just killed them all because he decided on his own that they were evil.
….Yea, God is great indeed.
There are better options than just saying “you know what, forget it, let’s just annihilate civilization as it IS and try AGAIN.
Because it always works so well.
IF YOU ATTEMPT TO USE LOGIC ON A JOKE YOU WILL BE KNOCKED DOWN AND BEATEN UNTIL YOUR BOXERS SCREAM FOR PITY.
Guess what – you’re under the influence of satan (so I’ve just decided at least) – so guess what (again) I’m going to kill you. How d’ya like them apples?
God killed those people in the flood because Satan made them evil. So Satan too is to blame for the deaths.
God made Satan, and by your logic is therefore the root of all evil.
nice going lewis black! [no srsly! totally pwned. all his bible study are belong to you]
i don’t think that god is entirely to blame for how one of his kids turned out.
Or how billions of other kids of his turned out….
pOOned
Pwned!
God made Satan, but God didn’t make evil. God gave Satan free will, and Satan chose to turn his back on good. Evil is, in essence, the absence of good, much as darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat.
Well, if God created free will, he should take responsibility for whatever is wrought from it. Stupid ass god and his free will. What has that gotten us, eh?
Forget it, Prizim. It’s religion.
If you’re thinking about it deeply, then ur doin’ it wrong.
too true. According to goddites, god is 1. omniscient 2. omnipotent 3. omnibenevolent. Please reconcile.
Please define your terms. There is wide disagreement in Christian
circles about the meanings “omniscient” and “omnipotent.”
“Omnibenevolence” may be a different story, but as it is a reference
to God’s goodness, then there is even disagreement about what it is
to say that God is good.
Also, please state what you think needs to be reconciled.
thanks
Omniscient = all-knowing.
Omnipotent = all-powerful.
Omnibenevolent = all-good.
Reconcile how all three of these may be true, yet evil still exists. Babies still die of starvation. Fathers of 8 children still die in car accidents. Darfurians are still being killed in great numbers. If god is so omni, he could easily stop those things from happening. Why doesn’t he?
Or… maybe there are no gods. That’s a much simpler explanation.
please note that you have not really defined anything. all that
you’ve provided is a rough translation of each term. and on top
of it all, you’ve introduced yet another term “evil,” which you’ve
left undefined.
i really am not trying to avoid responding, but i do want you to
state exactly what you perceive to be the problem. so, please,
define “all-knowing,” etc. (and please don’t say, “knows every-
thing”). and, then, lay out your argument. you have hinted at
it, but i would like to see what steps you take arrive at the con-
clusion that, presumably, God does not exist or is not “omni.”
Thanks, by the way, for responding. I really appreciate your
response.
Well, if you consider that God’s promise of eternal paradise
makes even the most horrible (temporary) life roughly
equivalent to a bad nightmare from which you are guaranteed
to awaken, (finding yourself in perfect safety and comfort),
even the worst that this world can throw at anyone fades in
comparison. Division by infinity approaches zero, after all.
The fact that God Himself was willing to face up to the
discomforts of a life of a wandering preacher, and then get
killed in a particularly brutal way, (with the additional pain of
being betrayed and abandoned by His best friends) shows that
He is also willing to put up with the sort of abuse that this world
visits upon the rest of us poor slobs. So, stiff upper lip.
Endure.
I don’t know why He made the world as He did. Possibly “thy
dross to consume and thy gold to refine”, as the hymn goes.
Possibly to give us something to talk about during eternity,
as mere slaves with no minds of their own must get dull after
a while. I’m positive any world without suffering would have
to prevent us from causing suffering to each other, which would
make it a vastly different place, and us vastly different people.
Maybe we’d be the worse off for it. I can’t prove it, but I have
faith that this is so.
(An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds.
A pessimist fears that this is true.)
I guess I’d have to ask you all, which would you prefer:
a) Having a mind of your own, but living in a world with
suffering; or
b) Only doing good to others because you have no choice.
Considering their position on coercive theocracy, I believe
most of Christianity’s critics fall under the first category. (Feel
free to correct me if I’m wrong in your case). I often wonder
at how contradictory people can be, complaining about a
situation they’d have chosen for themselves.
Too bad God hates Christians instead of free thinkers. The more deplorable that you are, the more God loves you. The reason for this is obvious. He gave you life for the simple act to ENJOY it. If you can find fault in this logic, by all means, tell me how you know that you can percieve the mind of the “almighty” and I’ll tell you how you’re a self-deluded sociopath who should be locked up for delusions of grandeur. God loves all of his children equally, well except you.
Doesn’t mean Christians don’t enjoy life…
Now, Mormons, on the other hand…
pls define ‘mormon’, ‘God’ and ’sociopath’ kthxbai
…. You’re joking, right?
Yeah, I think so. It was a riff on this dude’s insistence that we defined words even though we knew what they meant.
(Forgive the uncertainty, it was months ago.)
Mormons are Christians… They just believe that prophecy
continues into this age. Actually, it’s an awful lot like the Catholic church.
Pope – Prophet, Cardinals, Apostles(Although there are only 12 Mormon apostles and over 100 cardinals it’s similar is what im getting at…). They even have really strict rules to follow just like Catholics.
Ummm… maybe God wants US to do something about it?
Read Matthew 25 and get back to me.
i am going to attempt a response further down. i think i will be able to see the dialog box better.
…on that thought….
If as we are told God is omnipotent (as described in the Bible) can he construct something to heavy for himself to lift.
If he can’t then he can’t be omnipotent as even us poor mortels can do that.
If he can then he can’t be omnipotent because if he was he would be able to lift it.
How much weight can we assign to someone who relies on old George Carlin routines for their ideology?
Maybe the question should be turned around: Why are we sitting here letting it happen? If we all got up and DID something about all of that, they wouldn’t happen so often. What I mean to say is, if you want God to destroy all the evil in the world, he’d have to take out you & me too. But since he loves us, since he[emphasis] has faith in us[emphasis], and knows that we have the ability to deny evil ourselves, he continues to give us that opportunity- and, indeed, it is our only option if we want things to change.
Sorry, Bluesman, but I’m afraid that time has passed. In this ‘not my problem / not my fault’ society, where responsibility has been replaced with blame and ‘gimme’ has trumped ‘let me help’, I almost look forward to the end of days. As a race, do humans really deserve to continue?
Omni looks a tad like omnomnom.
Does that therefore mean that God makes pancakes?
x3
I like you, too.
nwn
don’ forget omnipresent ( always there)
What has free will gotten us? Lemme think about this a moment… umm… Freedom?
Fail God.
Actually the question is what has man gotten us.
Whether or not one can point the finger at God, society, the church, your parents, or anything is just a way of excusing yourself from being responsible for your own actions. While all kinds of mitigating factors play a key role into what a person decides to do or not do over the course of their life the point is as simple as this: You make your own decisions, no one forced you to make the decisions you did even if others try to influence your life. You, and you alone, are responsible for the things that you have done and do with your life. In addition, if you were to actually read the Bible, God did “take responsibility” by providing a way that anyone, no matter where they’ve been or what they’ve done, can be redeemed of the things they’ve done and be reconciled to God and not have to suffer the penalty for their actions, even though all deserve it. I don’t want to hear allegory or rhetoric about all the people that lived before Jesus, for if you were to make an earnest effort to understand Biblical truth you would see that His death was in many aspects retroactive, though I care not to get into the long debate over the various scriptures and theological discussion that would be necessary in order for that to make any sense, and even if I did, most taking your position would not believe anyways
tl;dr
You go, Chris.
isnt free will cancelled out by the divine plan?
wrong, god made satan, god gave humans free will, god told satan to bug them. god made evil. read it again – it’s all there.
Point of order, boom.
God made Lucifer, the archangel. That creation CHOSE to become Satan, the adversary. Also, he led his followers into a revolt against God. God created an angel, that angel chose to become evil.
If you read it again, please make sure to read the entire story.
yeah, but somehow that story doesn’t actually appear in Bible, only in one of the million explanatory books to tell things which are convenient for that particular time.
Actually people don’t believe that much in God, as they believe in the Evil, because only the fear of punishment (hell) makes many people to start behaving properly, it is not just pure love of God which makes us be good.
Reading Durrell, could it be that the full story of all the devil’s works does not show up in the Bible because God wants us to be God-conscious and not devil-conscious? There are parts of the story, but only that we have an understanding about the nature of our enemy, and it is at times cryptic even for those who study the Bible diligently. One sad truth is that if ignoring the devil caused him to go away, we’d be attending ‘ignoring the devil’ classes instead of Bible study.
Well, I have to agree with boom… God ultimately screwed up by allowing evil to exist. If he is truly trying to fight evil, why doesn’t he simply destroy Satan and his army? From what I read in the Bible, Satan doesn’t stand a chance against God.
Well, maybe…
But then what is the point of free will if you have no choices to make with it? After all, the definition of free will hinges on the concept of choice.
Please consider the following point of view;
1) And if, as the Bible says, God created man…
2) and if, as the Bible says, Satan chose to challenge God’s status as the only creature who is God by nature…
3) and if, as the Bible says, Satan also charged that man would turn away from that God as soon as adversity appeared,
THEN
It would only make perfect sense, in order to effectively deal with the accusations, to allow the people He created to decide for themselves which choice to make.
As long as the people know the consequences of each choice, the choice they make would be valid. That is, we would be responsible for our own actions. Either following Satan (nee Lucifer) and therefore being separated from God for eternity. Or else choosing to follow God and dealing with having to endure the literal wrath of hell.
Now please note that I am not dealing with Christianity versus other monotheistic systems. Simply presenting a line of logic that the Biblical description of ‘free will’ works.
Personally, I don’t believe that God ’screwed up.” Rather, it is an astoundingly smart move that allows us to learn right from wrong and gives us a long learning curve before the final decision is made. To me, Satan is the one that ’screwed up’ by perverting the concepts of God, godhood, right, wrong, shadow and substance.
This is an enormous subject that really can’t be properly covered in this context. There will always be believers, always be unbelievers and always be those on each side who won’t listen to the other.
Whatever religious implication this has aside, your comment on evil being the absence of good piqued my interest. What’s to say it’s not the other way around? Darkness/light and cold/heat are scientifically verifiable and make a lot of sense, but isn’t it equally as feasible to say good is the absence of evil? If it were the other way around, then an existence with nothing in it would have to be considered evil.
because evil is NOT the absence of good, it’s the effect of an absence of love. if you have love for someone, you do what is good for them. good can be forced out of evil situations, though. if you merely have no evil you simply have indifference, not good.
I disagree. Love is one of the few emotions that can drive people beyond the scope of normal hatred and into obsessive territory.
Love breeds jealousy and jealousy leads to hatred, thus love breeds hate.
Jack, I can see why you feel that way about ‘love,’ that in extreme cases it has, can, and does lead many to do great and terrible evil in the name of ‘love.’ However, my point of view is that those people are not in love, but believe that they are in love, and that deception is the beginning to justifying all the things people do in the name of ‘love.’ Many people aren’t really aware of it, but love is not so much a feeling as it is a decision, feelings can deceive you, real love is the decision to care for someone regardless of whether they deserve it or not. Even before I came to faith I have always believed that 1st Corinthians chapter 13 was the greatest description of love ever written. It is interesting to note that in chapter 13 in his epistle to the church at Corinth, Paul uses a word that was archaic even at the time, agape (with an accent over the e) that meant love without regard to the worthiness of the recipient. Other Greek words for the time that were in common use involved sexual attraction and other conditional attributes. “Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in lawlessness, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.” If it does not conform to every word of that quote, I’m sorry, but it’s not real love.
And hatred leads to the DARK SIIIIIDE!
Except hatred of jews and muslims! yaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
Putting aside religious implications (tired of HAHA U BELIEVE IN GOD DUMASS), sure. I suppose it boils down to whether you think humanity is inherently good or evil. Since we generally know when we do something wrong and have to become numb to doing evil acts by constant exposure, I’d have to say that good is the dominant trait in humanity. Thus, evil would be the absence of good; turning your back on goodness is something one is forced to do by circumstance. Yes, there are most likely exceptions, but that’s the general rule.
If that’s your thinking, it doesn’t take much of a stretch to believe that evil is merely an act without any good in it.
I respectfully disagree with Doctor Worm. I believe that man is basically
selfish not basically good or evil since you say that man chooses to do
good or evil depending on which one works better for him.
Look up the first few chapters of C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity.
there is no cold there is only less heat
there is no dark there is only less light
take a science class you prick
lolololol
All right, technicaly this is true, but I think you get the general idea.
Like all Christians, wrong again. God created evil, He even “says” so in His book of talking snakes and zombies:
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isa. 45:7).
“Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?” (Lam. 3:38).
“…that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings” (Jer. 26:3).
“I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they
should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts….” (Ezek. 20:25-26).
Andy “Christ”, you conclude that the very nature of any Christian is to be wrong and use the words of our faith as weapons against us. Tell me about the book of Isaiah? When was it written, who wrote it, and who was the intended audience of the book, or even that chapter? You conveniently left out the verses leading up to 7 in Isaiah, (5-7) “I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you though you have not known Me, that they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.” When even those two verses are added it suddenly makes it abundantly more clear that He is trying to demonstrate that He is in control of both good and evil things that when we see them we would know that He alone is God. You make it sound like God is deliberately and pointedly taking joy in the abundance of evil in man’s heart. There are 66 chapters in the book of Isaiah and 44 of them precede that just one verse you wield as a weapon, what do the 44 and a half chapters say leading up to that verse, and what do they mean? The next quote, from the book of Lamentations, believed to be written by Jeremiah, in poetry, out of the grief his nation has suffered by captivity in Babylon. The book was intended to demonstrate that even though Israel had rejected God and turned against Him and suffered for it, He would have compassion and restore them to their fullness if they came back to Him who brought them out of Egypt with many signs and wonders and established them as a nation. Since you appear to desire to take one verse out of context to wield as a weapon against faith, I will elaborate on all of these verses that you do not cause even the least of my brethren to stumble. Lamentations 3:22-39 “Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, because His compassions fail not. They are new every morning; Great is Your faithfulness. The Lord is my portion, says my soul, therefore I hope in Him! The Lord is good to those who wait for Him, to the soul who seeks Him. It is good that one should hope and wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord. It is good for a man to bear the yoke of his youth. Let him sit alone and keep silent, because God has laid it on him, let him put his mouth in the dust-there may yet be hope. Let him give his cheek to the one who strikes him, and be full of reproach. For the Lord will not cast off forever. Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His mercies. For He does not afflict WILLINGLY, nor grieve the children of men. To crush under one’s feet all the prisoners of the earth, to turn aside the justice due a man before the face of the Most High, or subvert a man in his cause-The Lord does not approve. Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass, when the Lord has not commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that woe and well-being proceed? Why should a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his own sins?” Suddenly that takes on a whole new meaning, doesn’t it? That the men of Israel even suffering from their self-wrought punishment are exhorted to have hope because God does not willingly bring affliction and grief to them, but rather, like any good father would, punishes a disobedient child out of love and an earnest desire to see that wayward child turn from their misdeeds and come back to where they know they should’ve already been. The way you cite that one verse is like saying God takes the stance of, “I made good and evil, so what?” It is a very ‘convenient’ omission of words in your quote from Jeremiah that has “…” in it, especially since the very words before that verse read “Do not diminish a word.” The FULL verse reads, “Perhaps everyone will listen and turn from his evil way, that I may relent concerning the calamity which I purpose to bring on them because of the evil of their doings.” So, instead of it sounding like God has purposed and delighted in all this evil He was going to visit upon them unjustly. He was speaking a word of warning to His people, that they turn away from their wickedness that He would not be forced unwillingly to punish them and see them suffer. That warning was out of love, He could have said nothing at all and waited on them to turn from Him that He give them their just reward for evil. Oh how different the truth of the scripture is from your convenient take on it, presenting it to those who do not know the full story as if you did! Last, but not least, the most difficult of your weapons to disarm without typing the whole book of Ezekiel. That particular book is perhaps one of the most difficult of the Old Testament books to see the inherent goodness of due to the very prevalent theme of judgment throughout. In order to even understand that book correctly one would have to read the entire history of Israel from Exodus, over one thousand pages of text. I’ll spare the exhaustive detail it would take to fully explain how despicably twisted that quote has been turned from what the real truth of it is. Though it should be noted that the verses before and after that verse demonstrate His earnest attempt to get them to turn from their own evil and return to Him, who loves them. Also, conveniently, my Bible doesn’t appear to read as your quote does, “Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live.” You are implying that God intentionally gave them rules that were evil and things that they should not live by and then spoiling their gifts to punish them for following what He told them to do. That is far from the case, for the very first word of that quote is “therefore” which very obviously hinges on the preceding verse and there is not a verse in the Bible that begins with that word that was ever intended to be considered outside of the verse before it, it makes the fullness of understanding that verse totally depending on understanding the one or ones before it. When He says “Therefore I also gave them up to statutes…,” He is not saying that He gave them evil rules and lies, but that He allowed them to exercise their free will to follow those statutes that other countries were trying to get them to follow. You add just a little bit of truth, enough to make it sound legitimate, even showing where you quoted them from to add more authenticity, but take the truth of love and redemption and twist it into attributing corruption to God, knowing that those of little or no faith won’t take the time to look up the verses themselves and see the truth with their own eyes. Just enough of the truth to twist it into an awful deception. I took no joy in painstakingly looking up and understanding these verses you’ve butchered that I may by any means protect even one, other than preventing you from doing further harm to those that are not mature in faith and knowledge of the Bible. I apologize to the others that read this and feel I am extreme and overly zealous in my words, but I will not sit by and let someone present a blatant lie as truth. All of you are free to believe as you will, no one can make that choice for you, however, while I will not attempt to force how I believe on you, neither will I allow someone else to take the very words that are designed to encourage, comfort, and promote goodness, faith, and reconciliation to God to be despicably twisted into a clever deception.
THE WORDS
THERE ARE TOO MANY OF THEM
was that from memory? i feel sooooooooo sorry for you.
brainwashing makes me sick.
The greatest ‘irony’ I see is the athiest quoting scripture to make his point.
Let me get this straight… God made everything and knows everything and has a “plan” for everything. If he is indeed all-knowing then he is malevolent for creating people he knows will turn to evil. But wait… he gave us free will… but he still knows everything. Do you see the catch-22 with this one?
The greatest contradiction of them all.
As to all knowing vs free will he knows what will happen depending on our
free choices
And let me get this straight: you would rather he not have created us?
Actually cold is the absence of energy, but that’s only science you know.
actually heat=energy!
For the record satan did not make anyone that died in the flood evil
that was mans doing
man committed original sin and according to the bible man slowly became more corrupt
so Satan wasnt to blame it was humanity
Much could be said about your comment, Travis. While it is ‘true’ that satan did not ‘make’ anyone that died in the flood evil, he was the one whispering in their ears telling them those things were pleasurable and good. It is a sad truth that when the enemy shows up he does not come waving a flag like “hey, it’s me, the devil, come to steal, kill, and destroy.” It’s very very subtle, most people, even Christians are not even aware when he comes against them. The ‘original sin’ gave man the knowledge to discern the difference between good and evil, but it did not give them a propensity to do evil over good. It is the effective and deceptive nature of the enemy to try and veil the truth and distract you into filling yourself up with all the pleasures of this world that empties one’s soul. It is not to say that anything or everything pleasurable in this world is evil or empties one’s soul, but that any of the things that are damaging to your eternity are the very things he tries to coerce you into doing the most. It is of my opinion that if the devil is leaving you alone, that he is not taunting you, making you beat yourself up for the things that’ve been done, telling you it’s all a lie and not worth it, there’s nothing to believe, if he’s not doing those things, then there’s something wrong and you are exactly where he wants you, or he would leave you alone. The Bible does not expressly give credit to the enemy for the depravity of man, all of us are free to choose for ourselves the things we do and are accountable for our own actions. However, it would be misguided to believe he did not have every hand in it he could get.
Not to mention things like the Sodom and Gomorra chronicles, and what not. That, and one could argue that since the Bible is not meant to focus on Satan, it is not meant to be used as a reliable account for just how evil Satan really is. One would assume that Satan had done countless evil things during the time in which the Bible was written; few, if any, are actually referenced in canon.
Ah, Sodom and Gomorra… the irony of Christian Bible-thumpers. Inhospitality = Divine Retribution. Whose win was that, then?
But yeah, I like your point on the satanical references being sorely lacking. This is because the religion at least focuses on the “love” aspects rather than the evil, since otherwise it would be Satanism…
Which bible did you read? The ones I’ve seen seem to concentrate on how to make sure things are mystically clean and how much this God fellow gets annoyed at people breaking his petty rules.
I mean, stoned to death for collecting firewood on Saturday? Just how much love is there in that.
It’s not a very good book. I prefer Tolkein’s work. Hell, I’d read Eddings over the bible, any day, and that’s really saying something. But at least his characterisations aren’t usually schitzo homicidal nutcases.
this comment FTW.
That’s because the vast majority of the Bible is the Old Testament, wherin everyone was Jewish (no offense, guys, but I may be about to put a crimp in your arguments here…) and, thus, everyone had to follow all the rules exactly as written to get into heaven. Needless to say, this didn’t work so well. So God sent Jesus as a sacrifice so that we no longer need to reach the impossible goal of being perfect to get into heaven. In the bible, it says that when Jesus died, the temple curtain was ripped in two (among other things that happened). This is significant because the curtain was a massive thing, something that not even a hundred men could have had a hope of straining. It was intended to signify humanity’s seperation from the pure, holy God because of our sins. When the curtain was torn, it signified that we no longer had to be seperate from God- our sins were forgiven, the divide breached.
What about Nazis?
oh, Vonnegut is much better than the bible and his fake religions actually make sense. “The Church of God the Apathetic” WIN!
Satanism is not evil, unless you take it in the context of the 7 Deadly Sins; but that’s looking at it from the Christian perspective, not say, an atheist’s perspective. In the Church of Satan, what is being preached is to indulge onesself and deny onesself nothing. It does not condone”evil acts”, simply the satisfaction of all desires.
Much like Christianity, it is contradictory. It preaches you fulfill your desires, but does not condone, nor mandate, illegal acts or things that the general population would find immoral (human/animal sacrifice, bloodletting etc.)
So while people can see things as overeating, sexual pleasure and so forth as evil things, Satanism does not teach you to do things in excess. It simply says to deny onesself no pleasure. Christianity, on the other hand, denies lots of pleasure. Sex comes to mind, and masturbation. Satanism also preaches love, though it focuses on loving thyself and being what people would consider “selfish”. It does not preach hate or intolerance, simply that you love yourself and give yourself all that you desire. Satan worship has been used, like other religions, as justification for harmful, immoral and illegal acts. Crusades, anyone? But that is not Satanism.
Doesn’t sound so evil when you put it like that does it. Only in a Christian god’s eyes would fulfilling all desire be wrong.
*disclaimer*
I understand other organised religions see the things stated here as evil, but the topic was Christianity so I stayed within that sphere.
This would seem uncharacteristic of me to anyone that has followed my specific comments to these posts. I, in my youth, have read nearly all of the Satanic bible as written by Anton Lavey and can attest that those general precepts are indeed true to the belief of Satanism. I have my beliefs, and they differ greatly from Satanism, however, any attack I appear to make is not on Satanism, but on all “religion” anywhere, even Christianity. It is in NO way saying that I do not believe in Christianity, but that in Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Satanic, and all other churches in the world there are an abundance of lies being preached. What do most people immediately think of when I say Catholic priest? Or how about televangelists on public television claiming that if you send them $77.77 that God will surely bless you with riches and power, an abundance of miracles, etc, anything to get that dollar out of your pocket and in their hands, who talk about children starving and dying in poverty in other nations while they stand on stage in front of a camera wearing a suit worth more than most of us make in a year, driving three vehicles, and owning multiple houses across the nation. My main point is, it’s all about faith, what you fully believe to be the truth, not what some other man is charismatically telling you that you should believe in using excellence of speech and undeniable logic. For the real Christian, it’s about a relationship, not a ‘religion,’ religion will kill you, it’s about being spiritual and following what you believe to be good, not strict adherence to some rules in an old book that suggest if you act good enough you can get away with the other things you do that you know you shouldn’t. I have never seen any religion under so much direct attack as Christianity, with an abundance of blatant rampant hypocrisy being the prime example of what we are led to believe is the church in America, and sadly actually is in many cases. Call me a hypocrite, for I am one, I used to be the loudest voice against Christ, using all my knowledge of logic to persuade anyone that I could to stop believing, that it was foolishness, and was just a way of being truly evil while appearing to be good. When I was a child, I used to think church was a big game of pretend that all the parents were in on that their children would behave when there wasn’t an adult around. I spent so many years of my life in bitter hatred and defiance it is amazing in my eyes to see how I could’ve ever came to faith in Christ. If anyone would be willing to hear my message, listen carefully. Christianity should be judged by Christ alone, not the people that claim to believe in Him, for I estimate over half of those that claim they believe are lying, whether they know it or not. I spent years, 23, despising Christians and being intolerant of their beliefs, always being told about how ‘wrong’ I was, that I was going to hell, even some would threaten me physically simply because I supposed that maybe there wasn’t a God. All I can really say about that is that one day I finally got so sick of who I was and the life that I lead that I picked up a Bible for the first time and read it for myself, let go of the burning hatred I had against those that claimed to be “God’s people,” and gave the words themselves a chance. Two days later I came to faith and have never looked back and have obtained a happiness and peace in my life I had never known before. Consider these words that I write, the diligent effort I’ve taken to address the topics that I have and not have any judgment against those that do not believe as I do (it would appear that I’m lying right here in reference to my comment to the misquoted Bible verses I spoke out against earlier, however, it is one thing for any or all of you to use all the logic and scientific knowledge you have to theorize why one should or shouldn’t believe, but to use the actual Bible against itself I can not abide in, though I have not passed judgment, but took the time to show the truth of what was intended versus the lie one would have you believe is true). I don’t write these things to present myself as ‘holier than thou’ or to make myself feel good about the sins I still allow in my life, you’ll never meet me, you don’t know me. I write in the earnest hope that any, even if only the slim chance of one, would see my effort taken to share what I have learned that they give the Bible a real chance, see it for yourself without having all the mind-shackles I used to. In these comments I’ve seen most of you are going by what you’ve heard about the Bible through being in a culture that for the most part claims to support Christianity, some of you have a relatively thorough knowledge of biblical things, a few even claimed to once be of the faith and have ‘learned better.’ If some of the people making the biggest arguments against scripture, even learned in some of it made the same effort to give it a slim chance, there’d be more believers. I’ll get off my soapbox now, but I’ll close with this thought. What if it is because it may be true that the entire world has you convinced it is foolishness and a lie, when if you gave it an earnest two days, it could save your life and positively touch all lives that come into contact with yours?
WTF
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO DECIDE TO WRITE AN ESSAY
FACE IT, WE’RE LAZY ASSES
WHO WON’T TL;DR THIS?!
Me.
I think you’re thinking waaaaay too much. The idea of humor is to make a joke obvious and quick, not to get technical!
i must have missed the joke. sorry. initially, the graph struck as a statement not a joke. perhaps in this case, the joke is on me?
It’s irony; nothing more than that, I would say.
It’s plenty more than just irony if it sparked such a huge discussion. You shouldn’t underwhelm something just because you don’t know how to contribute to it. The whole point of being able to think is translated right here when you think AT someone. Sometimes we think with, but most of the time we think AT like you’re doing right now. Join the party. People are doing it everywhere, and you’re probably invited.
I read this comment, about thinking AT someone and “Join the party. People are doing it everywhere, and you’re probably invited,” and I’ve been laughing for minutes on end:).
I think that in this case it was neither quick nor obvious. There are some very serious words in the presentation that add up to a serious tone. God, Satan,
killed.
At best, giving the person the benefit of the doubt, this is a successful attempt at division. At worst, it is a slap in the face to over a billion people who follow Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Forgive me if I fail to find humor in divisiveness.
This is a humor site, not a site for statements to be made. The site’s intention isn’t to “divide” people or anything. What I see is an example of irony – a humor technique.
Besides, this isn’t a statement about God or religion at all – it’s just using a piece of literature as reference.
(definition from dictionary.com)
i·ro·ny1 Audio Help /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -nies.
1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2. (in literature)
a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
So please explain, how does this fit into the definition of irony? It means to demonstrate what again? Maybe I’m being obtuse, but I fail to see any humorous theory at work here. Therefore, the statement stands out the most.
Get a life
She raaaaaaaaaaash.
Religious belief aside, I think the irony intended here is that most people with even the most rudimentary notion of Christianity would tell you that God=Good and Satan=Bad. Therefore a graph stating that God has killed a much larger amount of people than Satan would be opposite to what one would expect to see. Hence, irony.
No response ftw!
Woot Jane, bring on the pwnage!
How do you define ‘bad?’ Bad does not equate to evil. Because of Satan’s deception (pronounce that as ‘Half-Lie’) and Adam’s ignorance in believing it, death as a reality came into the world. There was some garden where Satan told Eve that if they disobeyed God, they would not die, but become like God. Well, they didn’t die… physically and immediately. So that was a half-lie. Instead, they became like God. Not all powerful, but knowing right from wrong. Another half-lie.
So because Satan (evil) corrupted God’s (Good) creation, everything became separated from God. (the truth of what would happen) and we are not Gods, because we are imperfect. Not in our manufacture, but afterward when the wrench got thrown into the works… as the saying goes.
Maybe it is me, but it seems that Satan is the one who is evil, responsible for twisting of creation from its Creator. Does that not make Satan responsible for a lot more than 10 deaths?
Hey, if you actually read, I wasn’t getting into a religious debate over the nature of Satan and the notion of evil. What I was attempting to do was to demonstrate the irony that was in the graph in simple terms that everyone could understand. I don’t care what you believe about God, Satan, religion, or who is responsible for what. You were the one who was pompous enough to put a dictionary definition of irony up, I just pointed out how people who are not theology scholars would see the irony. And it IS ironic because in order to demonstrate irony the author has to rely on the audience’s preconceived notions and expectations, which I demonstrated in my previous post. So take your sanctimonious rhetoric to someone who cares.
Let’s look at this logically.
God creates the Garden of Eden and places Adam/Eve there.
He places the Serpent there.
He places the Tree of Knowledge there.
Adam and Eve worship God as the all-loving Father who, as far as they are aware, has never lied.
Adam and Eve are innocent as of this time.
God gives Adam and Eve everything they could ever want, on the condition that they do not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Then comes the Serpent who tempts Eve with the idea that they will become more like their Father if they partake of the fruit from the Forbidden Tree.
Eve, being innocent at this time and unwise to the workings of deceit, jumps at the chance and partakes of the fruit, and later convinces Adam to do so too.
God then punishes them with expulsion from their home, the pain of childbirth, hard labour and the taint of Original Sin for every single one of their descendants.
The question that now begs to be asked is whether God knew of what would happen and did nothing to prevent it. God is omniscient, omnipotent and omni-benevolent according to Christian tradition and at this point Adam and Eve were still innocent of any crime. So why did he not prevent his children from disobeying him when it is certainly in his power to do so? Also, is not the punishment for this single crime of metaphorically growing up far in excess of just punishment?
Epicurus had it right:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Win.
God created everything in the garden, including the tree
of knowledge of good and evil. Why even put it there
to begin with if he specified that Adam and Even couldn’t eat
from it? The old testament version of god is one demanding,
vindictive guy. To punish untolds billions of people for all time
for two people eating some fruit from a tree he created to
begin with. Wow.
Knowledge+evil. GOOOOOOOOOO GOD!
actually, i have nothing against god, it’s his fan club i cant stand
Definately 2-a.
Especially if by plot development it means a chart plot.
How could you not expect division when you pick a subject like religion to
make humor out of when it is so important to billions of people around the
world.
it isnt a statement about god? 2 secs let me go look again….
urmm.. nope seems all good to me, statement that god killed way too many people for his own good.
but to be fair why has none of this awesome stuff happened in my time, i mean there were boats with 2 of every animal on, i would pay loads to see that floating zoo, and then all that about wine and bread feeding all those people, and jesus healing people with his hands?? sounds sweet, no need for doctors if we had more people like him. shame it all had to happen before we started recording what happened. blast
yeah, the worst monotheists have ever done to infidels was a slap in the face. tool.
Which is the difference between God killing someone and people who say they follow God killing someone.
That would be a fine thing to say if the Bible itself (primarily the Old Testament, to my limited knowledge) did not advocate warfare and killing. Deutoronomy 20 gives instructions on warfare and siege.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2020;&version=31; (I’ve linked to the NIV version, but the site allows you to choose from a large selection)
“12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.”
Now, I’m not saying all Christians literally follow the Bible and do not disagree with it; I never cared much for the Bible when I identified as Christian, it is passages like those that disgusted me. Those who do believe the Bible is 100% the Truth, though, well…that’s what it says.
Lightning!
It’s divisively accurate. The bible sucks.
no matter what they say… u stick with that bible you learned it all from adn you wont regret it
This is actually a scan of one of the charts in America the Book by the writers of The Daily Show.
I *knew* I’d seen it somewhere before. Good eye…
So this is a copyright infringement as well as not being funny? Now THAT is a hilarious joke.
Ah, see, now THAT I find offensive!
But did we finally locate those weapons of mass destruction? They certainly had biblical impact.
But did we finally locate those weapons of mass destruction? Does God winter in Tora Bora?
Ohohohohohohoho xD
A hahahahahahahaha! Gotta love it!
I lqtm’ed.
I lqtm’ed. It was funny.
These comments are disappointingly civil.
Screw you pal!!
.
.
.
.
Is that better?
Yes. Thank you.
Oh Reginald…
I DISAGREE!
*tires screech as he quickly accelerates away*
thank you. so much. for writing that.
go get’em. if ur saying what i think ur saying, u should get a medal.
Well, to be fair, the chart simply presents a statistic based on a literal reading of the Bible without providing any kind of evaluation one way or the other as to the moral, ethical, philosophical, legal, etc. interpretations of the statistic. Hard to see why/how any Christians would have a problem with that. Religious moderates are more inclined to tolerate people who have opinions and beliefs that contradict their own, so again, difficult to see where the flame war would come from.
It comes from the people who use the information to help spread hate against the
God of others.
listen dude. i don;t exactly have a problem with it. its just i have problems with how people are viewing it… they are viewing it as ” god is horribly evil adn its so true” no… god killed all those people for a good reason.
But i don’t understand how god is supposed to be this amazing forgiving being that can forgive anything, and yet he killed almost 3million people in his little holy book. You can’t kill someone “for a good reason” and still be “good”. He’s breaking his own commandments. So it’s “Do as i say and not as i do?”
Hmmm….
I can see the attempt at humor, but his graph falls short of the wit and cleverness of the others I have seen. It seems as though the composer of this graph was merely looking to make an inflammatory statement to see how the general public would react.
Its a shame that said composer had to resort to insulting the religious beliefs of others to garner a little attention and kudos as opposed to using his candor and imagination.
I’m interested as to how stating numerical fact can be interpreted as an insult.
Does that make 2+2 the ‘your mom’ of Math?
The statement of numerical fact isn’t an insult, but there’s subtext here. We might ask why this particular statistical fact was deemed interesting enough to point out.
Along similar lines, why is this statement of statistical fact funny? If it’s just a statistic, what’s the point of posting it on Graphjam?
Excellent points.
The thing about subtext is that it’s perceived and therefore different for everyone. The humor isn’t in the graph, or even in what it implies, the humor is in what people think it implies, and how they react to those thoughts. In other words, people like Melissa here are what make this type of graph funny.
Or at least, that’s the subtext I perceive.
I’m glad that you find a logical objection to an obvious religious slight humorous Pete…. In this case, it is all about the subtext, and I believe that the person who created this graph is broadcasting a very malevolent subtext. You are also broadcasting this same subtext by insulting my opinion and my beliefs. Congratulations on spreading a spirit of divisiveness.
What was that about turning the other cheek again?
Are you reading an edited version of the bible? Because in the version *I’ve*
read (being a baptized Catholic), this is a pretty accurate representation of events. And yet, I’m not offended. Funny, that.
There is no point in ‘togetherness’ with christians. it is an airheaded religion based on a hateful book written by hateful old men in the desert.
anybody who will willingly choose to follow this book over science, reason, logic and tolerance is beyond help, and that’s exactly what the majority of christian churches in america teach.
That’s not bigoted.
to Tom who is the one spreading hate here? For you to say there is no
point into togetherness with Christians is a completely narrow minded
statement to make. Also just because someone believes in God does not
mean he/she has abandoned science and logic even Einsteins spacetime
continium gives some possibility of a higher power.
The malevolence comes from the bible, not from the graph. You should read into the subtext a bit more. The divisiveness definitely comes from the graph. But malevolence is the work of god, baby!
“Does that make 2+2 the ‘your mom’ of Math?” Now THAT was funny!
agreed, gold star comedy.
This is two kudos for wit! 2+2 and the Pi r squared she rode in on…
HAHAHAHA!!
Oh, great. Now I need to go pee.
Pete, you’re trying to reason with people who reject science.
And Melissa, the world does not owe you a dissent-free experience. When you Christians invent your own Internet, you can censor it all you like. I will choose to stick with this one, where sometimes differing opinions make me think.
“the world does not owe you a dissent-free experience” – Genius, I am going to tell everyone that, I love it!
LOLz. The problem is people get offended when you poke fun at their dumb arse beliefs. And then ramble on about respecting beliefs, blah blah…
I respect their right to hold whatever beliefs they may have. That doesn’t mean I respect the belief itself. It’s this “don’t you poke fun at my gawd!” behaviour that leads to burning people on crosses and beheading people who didn’t pray to mecca at the right time.
Gawd danged morontheists.
i lol’d
’shopped
But how is simply stating something from the Bible seen as “insulting?” There is nothing here except a very basic chart of WHAT IS WRITTEN in the Bible. If somebody posted a Bible passage somewhere, nobody would go out and say “Hey, that’s really insulting.”
It’s all a matter of how you interpret it. I’m Catholic, and I’m not really bothered by this because if you look at direct deaths, then yeah, it’s technically right. So let’s all get the sticks out of our butts.
you go melissa…. everyone else can be a jerk to you… but i wont. I just wont be so stupid as the others. u stick with what u believe adn don;t let anyone change your mind
Eh, I’ve seen this before. Not really all that new.
Why don’t you contribute with something new, instead of your misplaced apathy. There’s a discussion that doesn’t need cheap contribution. Think before you post.
if you just wrote “think before you post” why didn;t you do it youtself? listen its free will here….. youo can say whatever you want to. if they wanna say that, they say that. GOSH! why must everyone think they are so much more special then everyone else? im just making sure that there is goodness going on in our little world adn its not exactly happening. If you don;t want bad reviews, don;t make offencive lolz.
Wait, I thought this was a website about pop culture and other things, NOT your own shitty opinion?
Doesn’t “your own shitty opinion” come under the banner of “other things”?
opinion???
it’s all there in shitty black and white my friend.
Include the number of people killed by those quoting the Koran, and THEN it will be accurate.
Yes, because clearly this chart references all religions that have ever existed.
Point of order, Mark. Not every religion. Only Judaism, Christianity and Islam. All the others are either animistic or polytheistic.
I feel like I missed some humor/sarcasm. But in case I didn’t, I’ll reply as this comment sounds to me:
You have failed to hear of Zoroastrainism, Sikhism, or Ancient Egypt’s Aten cult, etc., etc. then?
I stand corrected. My bad.
Don’t forget the cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster…bless His noodlyness.
I think in the history of civilization, Christians have killed at least as many, if not more people than Muslims in the name of “God”.
Cases in point:
-The Crusades
- European Imperialism
-The rise of America into a super power
- Hate Crimes against homosexuals
-”Pro-Life” believers who ironically murder abortion doctors
- “Capital Punishment”
-The current war now (which has caused more deaths than the attack that it’s supposedly retaliating against).
You forgot the Spanish Inquisition.
Insert Monty Python joke here.
no one expected that!
.
grrr, I’m so mad because I only remembered it after the fact.
So I guess I really didn’t expect it.
Someone fetch the soft pillows!!
Nice ….. !
Nobody remembers the Spanish Casual Chat. Insert Eddie izzard joke here.
tell me of el diablo!
The war in Iraq is in the name of God? European imperialism as well? Capital punishment? These things are politics and matters of state, not religion. The only point I see that even remotely makes sense is the Crusades, but even then it can be argued that Muslim Turks killing Christian pilgrims to the Holy Land provoked the First Crusade.
You obviously haven’t studied your history at all, especially the history of Islam. And the pro life comment was just…I don’t know. Insanity, I suppose. These doctors kill thousands of babies, which Pro-Life people protest, but a few doctors are killed by a couple radical Pro-Life believers, and suddenly Pro-Choice people care about human life? There’s irony there, but it’s more in your selection of who has value as a human life. I’m not Pro-Life, I’m not Pro-Choice, but your argument is just too stupid to go uncontested.
Don’t even bother arguing with people on here. This isn’t an appropriate forum for a thorough debate, and most won’t be back to check the responses to their comments. *sigh* That’s one of the reasons I’ve not actively joined any ‘debate’ on this site.
Instead of nay-saying the forum, you could contribute with something productive and therefore make it a place to host an appropriate debate.
- In case you haven’t realized the “war on terror” is really a “war on Muslims” (or sometimes, a “war on brown people that we can’t distinguish”.) Given the fact that many Americans seem to think that Muslim=Terrorist, and that kind of idiocy is what sparked my first comment.
- About European Imperialism: Have you ever heard of Manifest Destiny?
- Capital punishment functions on the principle that evil people in this life will be punished in “the next life”. It also follows the Christian principle of “Thou shalt not kill….unless we feel it’s necessary .” If you’re going to judge murders, you can’t go around have state-sanctioned murder to “counteract it”.
- I understand that Muslims killed people during the Crusades as well. But I was naming Christian murder and I am still winning.
- As far as abortion, you can’t really kill something that isn’t alive. Life begins at birth. Also, see my statement about capital punishment.
And so, if you know so much more about the history of Islam, please, enlighten me.
And yes, someone also mentioned the Spanish Inquisition. You also didn’t say anything about killing gays, but maybe that’s not important to you. Oh well.
I hate to point this out to you, but none of these things have anything to do with Christianity. You’re delusional. Not every war and killing in history is Christians killing for God. We don’t exactly have gay pogroms in the streets; in fact, we have people demonstrating for gay rights. Capital punishment isn’t based on the fact that people will be killed in the next life, it’s based on the fact that they’re bad people and our nation doesn’t want them alive to cause trouble for other people. The war on terror is a war on Islam? So World War I was a war on Christianity, right? Those damned papists, killing each other in the name of God. Conspiracy!
Do you honestly believe the entire US government is the Pope’s tool? What in blazes is wrong with you? Can you possibly be this stupid and still be able to form sentences?
By the way, Manifest Destiny was an American dream of stretching from Atlantic to Pacific. It had nothing to do with European imperialism (which had goals of expanding national power, prestige, and pride, not “KILL THE HEATHENS IN THE NAME OF GOD!”).
From a completely objective viewpoint, you’re an idiot.
From a completely objective view-point, epic fail.
You obviously haven’t studied your history at all, especially the history of the Crusades.
The Crusades didn’t start because Muslims were killing Christian pilgrims.
The First Crusade started because the East-Roman (Byzantine) Emperor had 2 big problems:
* territorial conflicts at his eastern border
* enormous debts with the Venetian bankers.
The Byzantine hoped to conquer land in the east, and pay off his debts with the profits.
The Venetians played an important role as bankers in all the crusades. They could even be held responsible for the fact that Christians sacked the Christian city of Constantinople – again the Venetians needed their money, and they wanted to get rid of an economic rival in the Mediterranean.
If we would make a chart of people killed by Christian crusaders, we would see that the number of Christians killed by Christians vastly outweighs the number of Muslims killed by Christians.
Trust me, I majored in history, I’m well aware of that. I was just pointing out that the only shred of sense in his case could still be debated. And unwittingly, you again proved my point from a different angle; the Crusades were all about politics, because Christians were killing other Christians. Thank you kindly.
But on another note, Venice had little to do with the First Crusade. The Venetians really didn’t come into play until the actual sacking of Constantinople.
You are ignoring the fact that they were Christians of the Orthodox tradition versus those under the leadership of Rome, therefore, one religious group fighting another.
Go Pro-Ignorance! You good sir, suck.
WTF are you talking about “pro-choicers are all of a sudden caring about human life”? Let me hear your definition of life. Then watch me rip you a new one when i point out that most “pro-life” right-wing christian f*cks are all about the death penalty.
P.S. Found your irony.
What’s wrong with capital punishment?
I don’t defend murder and its true that Christians have been responsible for multiple deaths. However, people are not perfect. So don’t look at the people necessarily to see what the religion is all about because all three groups are guilty at some point in history but look at what the religion itself teaches. Christianity teaches its believers to love others even their enemies and that is a religion at least worth considering and those who do not live up to this will be punished rightly by their own God the one they claim to serve.
bible= truth, koran =…. well what can you prove about your little book of the “koran”… because using the bible adn jesus inside me im sure i will be able to prove you wrong adn set you on the right path, or just make you think a little bit, if you give me a chance
Me has a question! Who was that 10 people who got murdered by Satan?
Job’s sons & daughters I think.
BTW that was a hit ordered by…you guessed it…
With due respect, God didn’t order that one, but it was for a bet…
Ah yes, what I love most about the Book of Job is the mental image I get of God and Satan following this bet up with a cosmic game of Truth or Dare (God-who is your biggest crush? Satan-I’m not telling you!)
**he already knows**
that was funny, i like you lol
I think it was Job’s family and servants.
The number of people killed by God is broken down here:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html
thanks for that link. i really found the graph more stimulating intellectually than humorous.
mind ur own business, dork…. he can like his link, you don’t have to. no one is forcing you to
Me has a question! Who was that 10 people who got murdered by Satan?
the anger of some people at a joke is amusing. It’s always just a joke unless it’s about you then it’s “mean”.
its about my god who created me for goodness sakes…. if someone dies for me, would i say ” gee wiz, i think that i really don;t care about you adn your stupidness” or whould i say ” i will do anything for you, for you have saved me” also, to make another point, when you become a christian, (which i am), god flows inside of you …… so he is in me….. making your point wrong (sorry to burst ur bubble)
Wow.
Get.
A.
Life.
u go dude…… u rock if im following u right.
No, you’re not.
Well, God created everything He has the right to kill it if He wants to. I trust Him.
how meek of you, ema
Thanks!
And the meek shall inherit the Earth.
AS long as no one objects…
tru pwnage
To take this to a different level, is death the end-all? If it isn’t, then is it really a ‘bad’ thing? If someone dies, and if (for the sake of simplifying the argument) they go to ‘heaven’, and if everyone wants to go to ‘heaven,’ then why would that be such a bad thing?
I suppose that the ironic humor would then hinge on whether or not death were evil. If it is, then this is ironic. If it isn’t, then the audience would scratch their collective head and say, “huh?”
Kind of the two reactions we’re seeing here, eh?
In that case, no one should ever oppose abortion.
No, that’s why no one should be blamed for miscarriages.
Abortions are human decisions. Humans are not Gods.
But God made humans… and humans made the fetuses. So if you can kill anything you make, abortion should be OK with everyone.
God made humans and humans made the fetus with what God gave them and you are not in the place of God to decide who stays and who goes. If death wasn’t so bad then why get so angry about the Spanish Inquisition?
OK, burning alive and systematically torturing folks because some superstitious medieval lunatics wanted to cull religious opposition vs terminating a non thinking, unformed foetus thereby safely eliminating unwanted and in some cases potentially dangerous pregnancies. Yes, exactly the same thing. I see your point.
Presumably, by this logic, you are staunchly pro-choice then….
EMA……………………. u rock my world. If only people would be like you adn me. god created us, died for us, he can do what he wants. But one important thing that everyone is missing is that god didn;t kill them for no reason. god killed them because they deserved it, they dishonered him, u get where im going with this……. u rock to be able to put that up…… =:)~
*facepalm* you’re not having faith in god, no, you are having blind faith without thinking. This is not faith at all, this is simply idiotic.
Please remove. I found this very offensive. If this would have offended a minority group such as Muslims or homosexuals, this graph would not have lasted 10 minutes.
You poor, dejected, member of the majority. When, oh when, will the mean minority stop picking on the defenseless majority? WHEN?!?
Why would a representation of events from a book you (presumably) follow bother you so? I just don’t see what’s offensive about it. Would a graph of the rapid decline in length of human lifespans after Adam & Eve have offended you too?
i’m loling so hard! i want the adam/eve graph!
you do not know what you are saying. why must you people be so evil to some of these comments? i’ll have you no why i am angry. i am angry because you are taking this wring. God killed them for a reason…. he didn ;t just say ” i hate you so die”…….. he killed them for certain things that they warned him about that they should have never done.
And yet god is still so holy? Again. “Do as i say, not as i do”?
Out of interest, what is there to find offensive? I’m presuming you’re Christian of some denomination (either that or a Satanist who’s objecting to the fact that his masters bad-ass image is a sham
) – in which case you believe in the Bible. In that case, you have to accept what is written in it. The link by arensb above shows a neat break down of how many people the Bible says God killed.
As such, this graph has nothing offensive in it. It merely shows graphically (in both senses of the word!) what your Holy Book says in words. You should actually be glad that the word of the Lord is being spread to the masses via the popular media rather than trying to cover up facts (that you believe in) that you’re not comfortable with.
Regarding your comments about Muslims / Homosexuals, I’m sure that the Qur’an has similar figures in it and thus you could simply swap “God” for “Allah” above (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_narratives_and_the_Qur%27an). And homosexuals… Do you know I would be interested to know what the break down of homicides is by sexual preference – I’m sure it would be surprising to a lot of people…
When someone says he is offended you can’t ask him why he is offended and try to explain to him why he should not be offended. Would that work with any other religion or minority ethnic group? Can you offend what you call a majority because you think it’s ok? Should we all start offending everyone else cause we think they should not be offended? Just wondering…
Erm – why can’t you ask someone why they’re offended? As far as I can see, there’s nothing offensive there – so some clarification would be A Good Thing(tm). You can’t just say “remove this post – it offends me” without any explaination as to why / how it’s offending you and why your views justify the censorship of the material for everyone else…
And in case you hadn’t noticed I wasn’t offending anyone or anything (other than perhaps my flippant comment about Satanism – which was an attempt to lighten the tone a little!), nor was I saying it’s ok to be offensive as long as you believe the other person shouldn’t be offended. I think it’s very bad form to offend someone, whether or not you believe in their views. What I was doing was trying to ascertain what part of the graph was offensive and therefore warrented removal.
How would you feel if I reported your sane and (relatively
) non-inflammatory comment as offensive to me and had it removed from the website? Wouldn’t you want to know /why/ it had been removed? Wouldn’t you demand justification for the removal rather than “one of our users didn’t like it – even though you weren’t offensive in any way, we had to remove it due to that nutcase*”?
–
*no indication that michael or ema are nutcases in any form whatsoever
alright. If you want… ill give you an explanation as i have been doing with other comments for over an hour not to be mean but to send them into the right direction. I am offended because people are talking this graph as ” god is evil/toeveryone” no. god isn;t evil. he killed them for a reason which is what everyone, even you, has been missing. God killed them because they were dishonering his name just ( if i am correct) as you are doing here. he could have also warned them blindly adn they chose not to listen…. which, if you think about it, would make you mad too.
Ema, sorry to disappoint, but whenever minorities get offended, it is the common
practice to patronize them, say they’re overreacting or ignore them completely.
But I don’t think asking you to explain yourself is offensive. If I, as a feminist, was offended by something and was asked why, I would have no trouble saying so. As long as the conversation remains a respectful exchange of ideas, what’s the harm?
Oh, boohoo. It’s not the admin’s problem you failed to grow some thicker skin. Welcome to the internet, buddy! Now put on your bigboy undies and stop whining. Just because you found it offensive, doesn’t mean it’s not funny.
ROFL & very well put. I’m going to copy that and keep it.
Yeah… what they said. After all boys will be boys… and internet message boards will be internet message boards. Don’t expect either of them to civilize.
Indeed. People are naive to think that any internet forum can be a “safe place”. The world isn’t safe. Just be glad people on the internet can’t actually touch you.
You know, I never really thought about the people on the internet being able to touch me, but now that I do, I really AM glad they can’t. I mean, what with all the weird sites out there… Boy that’d be an unpleasant experience.
Wow! Thank you all for setting me straight! This internet thing is so confusing to us crazy Christians. Come on though. Its not just so outlandishly offensive that I just can’t bear it. I just get sick and tired of having to take it and nothing being said. I know that its not cool to be a male, white, hetero, mainstream conservative Christian anymore but why are we so quick to twinkle toe around minority issues so as not to be “intollerant” but the white evangelical devils like me just needs to grow a pair when our core beliefs are mocked?
If a chart were to suggest that a womans place better be at home makin babies or that homosexuals were the prime carrier for aids (btw neither being my view) we couldnt have protested fast enough to get the site turned off.
All I said was I find it offensive. I guess I should just shut my mouth and let the advertisers know what they are bankrolling.
You’re neglecting the point that this graph is representing things direct from the Bible. Also, their is some irony, even if not everyone finds it humorous. A chart showing that homosexuals are prime carriers for AIDS is 1. going with the expected stereotype and thus not ironic and 2. not funny to anyone (except a few f-ed up people who find terminal illnesses humorous).
This chart is poking fun at Christianity using direct statistics from the Bible itself, and that is part of why it seems a little weird to be offended by it. On one hand, yes, it is mocking Christianity. On the other hand, it’s citing the Bible directly.
So I will fully admit that this chart could be disrespectful to Christians, but you have to admit that there is nothing in this that could not be concluded by simply reading the Bible, and therefore to take offense to this is to admit that is a part of the Bible you are not comfortable with (namely, the contradicting presentation of Yahweh in the Old Testament, due to the fact that many of the original stories of the Old Testament come from a polytheistic religion, and that after the Hebrew people adopted the monotheistic system of the Egyptian rulers, they then tried to reconcile stories involving rivaling deities into a monotheistic body of work, which was resulted in a book that seemed to contradict itself in many cases, even if many of the central themes of the work were still valid and meaningful).
Stop worrying so much because people disagree with you. No one is threatening to kill you. No one is in any way threatening you or your belief systems.
By fighting with them, you’re simply telling them that you’re scared that you’re right. Even if you don’t honestly believe that they’re right, and even if you aren’t scared, by fighting so vehemently, that is what comes across.
If I was an atheist trying to convince you you were wrong, and you fought back like you are, I’d say, “Aha! I’m getting to him!” But if you sat there and said, “Haha, good joke. You’re missing the big picture, but whatever,” I don’t think I’d have the same feeling.
I’ve looked much into the teachings of Jesus because many of them are surprisingly Taoist. One of the ones that comes to mind is the idea of not fighting, of turning the other cheek. There is a lot of hidden meaning in that phrase. During the time he said it, if someone were going to have to slap your other cheek, they have to use the palm instead of the back of the hand. If you slapped someone with your palm, they were your equal. The back of the hand was what you used to hit those below you. Or, they’d have to hit you with their left hand, the hand you wiped your ass with, the hand that you never used for anything else, or else you’d be below them. The phrase doesn’t mean, “Just let people hit you,” it means, “When someone hits you, don’t hit them back. But make it so that they can’t continue to hit you without losing face, without making themself seem worse.”
If you fight back, everyone here who thinks you’re wrong gets a go ahead to wail on you. And their friends will laugh and say, “You really gave it to him good!” So just give it up. You know what you believe. Why do you have to prove it for people on a humor website?
*By fighting with them, you’re simply telling them that you’re scared that they’re right.
Fixed
wtf?!
You actually read thorough all that?
XD
You have no life.
What is so funny about putting down someone’s beliefs like that? Telling someone to put their big boy pants on doesn’t make you the bigger person it just makes you a bully. If I made a list about all the failures of Darwin’s theory would that be ok?
Which failures? I know I’ve never heard of any.
He is correct.
Please remove michael. I found him very offensive.
Aren’t you supposed to start that with, “Dear God,” and end with “Amen”?
Dear God,
Thank you for wonder mutt. Please bless them and keep them safe all the days of their life. I pray that you would keep their family close and you love could be readily seen in their life. Thank you for sending your only son to pay a debt we could never pay. We love you and give thanks for everyday.
In Jesus name I pray,
Amen
Reminds me of religious people quoting the bible at opponents of religion/atheists. Logical eh?
I don’t know about wondermutt, but if that was directed toward me i would tell you to mind your own business and keep your imaginary floaty man away from me. You will not inflict me with the curse of your delusions.
Yeah, something about that ‘ch’ in his name making a ‘k’ sound is a smack in the face to all the phonics teachers out there.
Well, phonics/English teachers have more than that to worry about. There, their, they’re. Bach. Friend, pie. Pour, hour, bower. It goes on forever, in English.
Then there are all those kids with made-up, alternatively spelled, or gender-switched names.
Umm . . . aren’t ALL names technically “made up?”
WIN!
This statement is ironic seeing as Muslims and jews believe in the same God as Christians, therefore, they SHOULD have been offended at this graph too, but it is still up!
you are so right. no one cares about the christians……. but if its the muslims…. everyone gos nuts and insists they are right until it happens….
Religion is just a crutch for people too afraid of facing the realities of the world. You die and you are dead, there is no plan, no floaty place in the sky where the big man with the beard hangs out making sure you find that penny on the ground, helping you to win your sporting event, and simultaneously ignoring the slaughter of thousands of people across the world, the children dying of cancer, etc, etc, etc. In the end, Religion is nothing but a comforting fairy tale; childish and irrational as Santa and the Easter bunny, but condoned and supported by otherwise rational human beings. A plague.
Self-righteous, arrogant athiesm is equally as bad as self-righteous, arrogant christianity or any other religion. Check out the south park episode about it.
LOL, South Park, the place to go for a moral compass!
Well said Megan. All I’m reading here is a large number of atheists spewing why people are stupid for believing in God, why God is evil, how those that believe in God aren’t facing reality, etc. Why should they have to defend this? It’s kind of sad, actually. I don’t need to defend MY beliefs. No one is going to change a mind that isn’t open to possibilities. Therefore, atheists are just as closed minded as any hardcore Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. And, when you get down to it, atheism is a religion too, kids.
Frankly, if my faith is a fairy tale, David, I’m happy with the comfort and help it has brought me. Maybe you should change your name, David. It’s Hebrew after all and means “Beloved.”
Atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Brilliant!
OMG I have reading this for two evenings now (yes, that is procrastination eh…) and I just have to comment here because the hobby comment actually DID make me literally laugh out loud very loudly. Fantastic.
I was trying to think up an analogy for that one. Like not practicing any sports is a sport in itself. No. Atheism means not believing in a god. That is NOT a religion. I can go for my whole life without thinking of a god, let alone if there is a mono god or animistic god or poly gods. Not following any rules, dogma, book, worship, practices, meetings, or even organised thought about it in any manner. There is no way in the world that each of us separate atheists are each practicing a religion of atheism, my deluded Melody.
And is ANYONE else really tired of Rachel and her inability to type “and” instead of “adn” (which is french for “DNA”) and her earnest preschooler-like blind cheering for “us” vs “them”?
Non stamp collecting. ROFLMAO. Thanks for that.
David, I hear and understand what you are saying and agree with you.
I have no religion.
I choose to believe in myself.
I choose to take responsibility for my own actions and the outcome that my actions bring, good or bad.
I choose to accept my own flaws and problems and love MYSELF no matter what.
I do not need a third party to forgive me for my mistakes or force me to live by a set of rules, I will forgive myself, when necessary, and treat everyone with respect, honor and dignity.
I teach my children the same things.
The world would be a better place if religion were gone and in it’s place was a global society that loved and respected each other.
When we die we fade to black, you only get one ride on this trip, you should enjoy it, but never at the expense of another one who is on this journey with you.
“Thou art god. All who groks are God.”
Let me know when you open the St. Myself Hospital, or the St. Myself Orphanage, or the St. Nobody is Out There Soup Kitchen.
You’re kidding. You think that people like David don’t volunteer at or open charitable organisations? You’re saying there are no grants, awards, welfare programs, helping, hospitals, soup kitchens, orphanages that aren’t St. Somechristiansaint? Funnily enough, atheists can just start a foundation without calling themselves a saint or thinking of themselves as a saint. Just a normal human being who thinks of others rather than self-aggrandizing appellations. I don’t remember Jesus starting “St. Jesus Hospital” or “St. Jesus Orphanage”. No, he just did good without putting his name in lights. Hint.
You’re right: you don’t need to defend your beliefs. Neither do I, and neither does David. The only people who should be defending their beliefs are the ones doing harm to other people as a result of those beliefs. I would argue that David was not defending his beliefs; he was simply doing exactly what Jehova’s witnesses do, except instead of spreading the word of God, he’s trying to bring the concepts of logic and rational thought to the world.
Be very careful when you call atheists closed-minded. Keep in mind that the average atheist was born into a religion and at some point had to decide for his or herself to go against the strongly ingrained social background of religion. I had it easy: my family had moved out of the deep south long before I started thinking about my own beliefs, but think about atheists who live in middle America–it’s not uncommon for an atheist to undergo serious religious persecution for their beliefs.
Religion (n) – the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power. (From the Oxford American Dictionary.) Thus, atheism is not a religion.
I strongly recommend watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTZONIl546c
Correction: “Hardcore atheists are just as close mind as any hardcore Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.”
That I entirely agree with, and such people annoy me greatly.
As for defending your beliefs, I agree and disagree. Inherently, someone is always going to disagree with you, but they shouldn’t disrespect you because of your beliefs and constant (mean-spirited) mockery is entirely unacceptable. I respect people a lot more, though, if they are willing to get in the occasional intelligent discussions about theirs and others beliefs. I like to understand people and as long as discussion remains civil, it can be very interesting.
I don’t see how stereotyping atheists for stereotyping Christians really gets us anywhere. Besides, not everyone opposing your viewpoint is actually an atheist.
Yes, some of us are Taoist. But then, we rarely say anything to offend people. After all, much talk leads inevitably to silence; ’tis better to hold fast to the center.
The funny thing is that this argument starts out with a raging battle between the two sides of differing opinion, then gradually mellows out into a gentler, slightly more even-handed exchange of opinions and neutral statements further down the page. Both scientific and Taoist, as it tends towards a balanced state between the two extremes!
M.
Thank you for having such a sound mind in your beliefs. I must say its refreshing to meet someone who isn’t 100% sure that they’re beliefs are the only correct ones
Behold! I am the great and all powerful David! I have unraveled the secrets of the universe, and my mind is vastly superior in intellect and reason than the billions that have come before it! Look upon my knowledge and tremble, you fairy tale-believing fools. I can insult and degrade all I like, for I can see the universe with a clarity never before seen in this world, and all those who cannot match my power are worthless imbeciles, fit only to be the subject of my clever mockery. In my infinite wisdom, I have decided that there is no god; I have not seen, therefore it is not real. There was also no Big Bang; I see no evidence of such. In fact, my wisdom and understanding of the world based on science dictates there is no way to create life, so in conclusion, I now decree that there was no beginning to the world. The universe has always existed, and anyone who believes in fairy tales about something like an eternal god that “has always been” or other such foolishness deserves no less than death for their ignorant beliefs.
Behold! I am the great and all powerful DoctorW! I believe that a book written by man almost 2000 years ago is solid proof that there is a floating man in the sky! Look upon my Lemming like qualities and tremble, you who dares to think for himself! I can insult and degrade all I like, for I belong to an ancient, established tradition used as a method of power and control for thousands of years! In my infinite wisdom, I have decided to believe what I am told; the unexplainable need not be unexplainable, it can be solved with a fable and I will not have to worry, or think! God also watches over everything, and helps me find that lucky penny on the ground while ignoring the man down the street being shot in the face. In fact, because my mommy and daddy took me to church I have been brainwashed into believing in the supernatural but only on this issue! There can be no magic, and yet God is clearly a fact! Man has only been around for 6000 years, and those who do not follow my specific religion will be relegated to hell for all eternity!
That’s funny, I never offered an opinion. You’re just stereotyping everyone who doesn’t agree that you know everything. I did enjoy your use of phrases like “brainwashed”, because it gave me a mental image of the pope wearing spiral glasses and repeating “GOD EXISTS” every few seconds until I become a zombie in his thrall. Talk about a papist conspiracy!
I’ll clue you in, David old chum; I was raised as a human being and American citizen. My parents didn’t force any religion or belief on me, so I wasn’t hampered with any “brainwashing” as you so eloquently put it. I learned to accept death, so your theory of me using religion as a crutch because I, and the majority of other people in the world, are weaker than you goes out the window. The most I can see from what you say is that you have a serious superiority complex. You believe yourself superior to everyone else, and only those who agree with you are even worthy of your time. Wait a minute…that sounds a lot like your definition of a Christian, which you profess to hate! But don’t let the hypocrisy stop your moral crusade to prove your infinite superiority to all those who have come before and after you.
So completely unaffiliated with any religion or form of thinking, I took an objective look at world religions and atheism. And surprise! Logically, I concluded for myself that there simply must be a higher power. Not only is it the height of arrogance to assume that we’re the best, there’s nothing above humanity in the universe (you seem to have no trouble believing yourself to be in this role, though), there’s no logical or scientific way the universe could have possibly began. The most basic rule of science is that “matter is neither created nor destroyed, it only changes form”. So where did you come from, all powerful David? Where did your world begin? A common theory is the Big Bang; all the matter in the entire universe exploded out of an area the size of the head of a pin. Well, this seems like some fairy tale conjured up by some delusional scientists to use as a crutch, because humanity is too afraid of its beginnings. That provides a nice, logical explanation, doesn’t it? Unfortunately, this brainwashing has no basis in fact; no experiment has even come close to duplicating this effect, and the Big Bang itself runs contrary to the laws of science. So I conclude that you, in addition to being a pompous, self-righteous blowhard, are also an ignorant fairy-tale believing moron who is fooling himself into believing in this flawed premise because he’s too afraid that there might be something unknown to him, and the possibility of something unexpected that he can’t control scares him.
I’m a self-righteous blowhard? Let me show you the response I got from making a, to put it in terms understandable by you – a statement of faith. I said: Religion is a fairy tale. This is NO different from a Jewish person saying that Jesus was not god, that Muhammad was god’s prophet, that Buddha is god. It is a statement of MY beliefs that you were free to ignore, or disagree with. However, you INSTANTLY went into attack mode, W, posting an arrogant, self-righteous and extremely defensive comment. What are you so scared of? Are you that insecure in your own beliefs? You say that I have a superiority complex, and yet the christian belief system has always relied on a superiority complex in order to exist. What happens to nonbelievers? Why, W, they burn in hell. Could they be good people? Sure, but because they do not believe in Heyzeus Christmasface; blam. You tell me, you pompous, self-righteous blowhard, of a more serious superiority complex than that. That I “thought logically” and came to a different conclusion than you? How dare I do that. How dare I. How does one think logically and come to the conclusion that Christianity has all the right answers? You can’t. Something unexplainable has to happen somewhere along the line of reasoning that requires faith, and faith, by definition is NOT LOGICAL.
In all honesty – I don’t know, and I do not presume to know what exists outside of my world. I would love for there to be a god, that would be fantastic. That would allow me to live forever in a happy afterlife of perfection. My first comment referred to religion as the problem, I never stated anything about my belief in god, because I am not arrogant enough to presume that I know anything about the origin of the universe. That is my problem with RELIGION, not god, notice, W. We humans DO NOT KNOW, and it is beyond arrogant to believe that, by golly, we have got it pegged! What makes the christian god correct when all previous gods were not? Wait! oh noes! There is that religious arrogance again!
I have no problem with your god, I’m sure he’s the man. But religion, notice, the only thing i mentioned, is an illogical and arrogant, beyond arrogant, declaration of knowledge that is utterly impossible to possess.
You sir, are an ass. You took a debate about different beliefs and made it into an attack on my character. I do believe that would lose you some points.
You make it sound like your original post was a humble expression of your beliefs, and I immediately attacked your character for disagreeing with me. You insulted and degraded everyone who believed in religion, calling them cowards who believe in fairy tales, and I mocked you by pointing out that humans don’t know everything there is to know. That’s when you instantly went into a defensive mode and attacked my personal character, making assumptions about what I say and believe when I didn’t offer any personal opinions whatsoever, just pointed out the flaws in what you said.
What happens to believers? Why, sir, they’re arrogant, brainwashed cowards who are too afraid to accept death. Are they good people? Maybe, but because they don’t agree with you, they’re stupid and not worth thinking about.
Who said I’m a christian, anyway? All I said was I believe there has to be a higher power. I have no problem with your big bang; I’m sure it was a doozy. But science, I notice, the only thing mentioned, is an illogical and arrogant, beyond arrogant, declaration of knowledge that is utterly impossible to possess. You, sir, are an ass. You insulted without being provoked everyone who disagrees with you, then took the attitude that you were maligned when someone dared to fight back. It’s absurd that you call an entire faction of people out, disrespect them, then act like you’re the one insulted when one of them mocks your superiority complex.
And you you still ignore the fact that the statements made by religion presuming to know and understand the incomprehensible is the epitome of arrogance, and that those who do so suffer from a far greater superiority complex than you could ever accuse me of possessing. You original response to me asked how i could dare challenge the vast knowledge of those who have come before me, and I ask you, W, without challenges to the ideas of those who came before, the Earth would still be the center of the solarsystem, the world would be flat, people with 6th fingers would be burned as witches. Challenging those that came before you isn’t arrogance – its progress. Its the way our species survives and grows. You also ignore my challenge that it is impossible to “logically” come to the conclusion that a god exists. Accuse me of attacking you, oh ye valiant defender of the faith, but also refute some of my argument instead of just trying to ignore it next time.
If i has told you 500 years ago that there were countless millions of tiny invisible green munchkins that circled your head shooting you with lazer beams, thus causing any and all unfortunate skin blemishes, the burden of proof would rest with me to prove this assertion. With no presentable evidence other than the fact that you get zits, you would think I was nuts. Now we know that crap in your pores cause them. The exact same is true with god – there is no proof, no evidence to back up the assertion other than the end result. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to proceed aknowledging that you dont know, and frankly, that it seems rather unlikely.
Now, as far as the science of the big bang – I’m no expert. However, the BBT does not require leaps of faith to believe in – some things are not fully understood yet, perhaps, but they do not require leaps of faith, and there is evidence to support the theory besides the end result – fun fact, the big bang theory was first thought up by a jesuit priest. To assert and throw my words back at you again that science is illogical and arrogant is plain stupid. Scientists do not come up with theories out of thin air with no evidence. Then it would be called religion. Your attempt to twist the first law of thermodynamics is a failure as well – look up the casimir effect and vacuum fluctuations. Something can come from nothing as long as certain laws are obeyed.
Again, the nature of religion requires a leap of faith, thus it is illogical. Address the points, not the tone; For all you accuse me of possessing a superiority complex, you are just as guilty. I will always call out a group of people for their beliefs if they seem irrational and deluded, for it is damn dangerous for someone, especially many someones, to not be thinking logically.
While I do agree with David here, and I don’t much like flame wars, it’s refreshing to find a flame war that’s actually well written, with proper punctuation and spelling.
ROFL. I agree. Thank god there are no “your an pompous ass adn I like eva bai” here. But one is afraid to light a match for all the noxious gases being spewed. Frankly, looking at all religions now and ever have been, it seems that the best conclusion that “we don’t know, we probably never knew, differing groups of millions have thought THEIR answers were THE right ones, the basis of all law, morality, order, and to date none has been proven right, and thus we certainly aren’t any further ahead right now in believing in any current explanation”. I personally cannot be an atheist any more than a theist since there is no more proof for no higher being than their is for a higher being, whether the flying spaghetti monster or the Christian’s god. I think that we probably CANNOT know, any more than a clay jar I make can conceive of a human being. Or a bean can understand DNA. Anything greater than us by that degree to have created a universe would be out of our realm of understanding or experience. And very unlikely to be intervening in our bunions, love lives, philosophies or punishing us for not believing in them. And I never understood this Jesus idea: If I had one kid and tortured and killed him, his suffering would undo all the future wrongdoings of all my future kids and their kids, as long as they believed that the tortured kid was my son? um what? And if they don’t believe that, they will be tortured forever. nice. and weird.
I’m with David on this one. W, how the hell is science illogical? Bah what a load of rubbish. Oh and has anybody thought that we are already in hell(Earth)…assuming it exists?
When you say that the Big Bang goes against the laws of science I can’t help but cringe. One of the fundamental laws of physics is that they entirely break down beyond absolute zero or the theoretical absolute hot. And they have calculated the temperature at 10^-43 seconds after the Big Bang to being high enough to begin to bend the laws of physics. As far as matter is neither created nor destroyed–it wasn’t. The density is what has changed. A black hole is infinitely dense compared to anything else we can find, but that doesn’t mean there was never anything that was more dense. A black hole the size of a proton weighs more than a gram.
I have spent time reconciling religion with science, and I have found an equilibrium. It took a lot of thought, but based on a loose interpretation of the Bible and a strict adherence to the current theories on science, it is possible to fully accept both. Just thought I’d throw that out there.
David I’m not trying to put you down because of your beliefs but since you don’t believe in God do you believe in good or evil?
W, stop using insults, you’re helping wreck the cause!
THIS IS ALL ATTACK OF THE ESSAY WRITERS
RUN AWAYYYYY
RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
*it’s a trap*
[*coughtl;drcough*]
Jesus loves me this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to him belong
They are weak but he is strong.
Yes Jesus loves me,
yes Jesus loves me,
yes Jesus loves me (and you David)
For the the Bible tells me so
David, I bet your a nice guy. And I bet your a smart guy.
So which makes more sense? You are a randomly blended complex set of inert gases that somehow to some unfathomable mathematical chance hooked up just right and now can think, bleed, love, and fear or that maybe a God bigger than we can understand simply loves you and wants to know you?
Do you want to be random gas? Thats kinda lonesome. I guess I’d rather be a happy fool with a big ol’ crutch.
And you prove my point. You believe in something because the alternative is unpleasant! Thank you michael.
This statement is just as logical: I know that shots hurt, and I do not like this fact. Therefore I believe my skin is impervious to needles.
Unfortunately, my wishing or beliving in the imperviousness of my skin does not make it true.
If I told you I believed that the world was ruled by a gigantic Sofa that resided in the core of the Sun, you would think I was insane. But the fact is, there is just as much observable evidence to back up my belief system as there is to back up yours. Observable evidence, michael, is used in every other part of your life to determine what you will do, and the very definition of faith requires you to abandon it for religion. Enjoy your crutch, I’d rather stand unhampered on my own two feet.
Jesus is a fairy tale, fairy tale, fairy tale,
Jesus is a fairy tale, and you’re stupid.
Having a song quoted at you doesnt feel good, and doesnt help the arguement, does it?
well then tell me….. TELL ME…. where have we come from? where has this earth come from? dont say evolution because in that case, where did the first cell come from? —— i learned about evolution in science the other day. our question was ” could a walrus and a cat be related because they both have fangs?” that is ubsured…. adn worse than your santa claus childish thing. can you prove that religion is fake? there are many archeological digs where even nonbelievers find things that are proved in the bible. and even bible code. there was a code written long ago along with the bible in a mix of languages that, if spelled out, predicts the presidents of the USA, when the Twin Towers would fall and how, and many other things. How do you think those things got there? the only thing, person, or spirit that could ever predict such tragic events could be Jesus Christ…… our god. Now prove to me about any of this that im wrong, adn i bet you that i could look up it in the bible and find out.
Nostradamus also predicted all kinds of stuff that came true too. But that didn’t make him god. You can make anything that you “decipher” fit into any mold you want it to, anything you need it to be. Like the movie that just came out, Knowing. You can take a string of randomly generated numbers and “decipher” that they’re telling you that god is going to strike down all of the non-believers on October 19th 2041. It’s called “Making Stuff Up”, little kids do it all the time. Wich is what the bible is, made up. i could write a huge book like that with a bunch of “facts” and pretend that it was real too.
FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING
YOU ARE REPLYING TO POSTS THAT ARE NEARLY A YEAR OLD
THE PEOPLE YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO CONTACT PROBABLY HAVE MOVED ON FROM THE DISCUSSION
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE
Um, we are reading the thread and commenting on it just like you are, dear SHUT UP. Is there a limit date to commenting? We are trying to accomplish adding our voice, our thoughts, and to the conversation so that other like ourselves, and yourself, can read our comments any time in the future. Isn’t that what the whole point of being able to comment on blogs is about???
Rachael, dang, is your keypad incapable of writing “and”?
haha, i want to kick you in the nuts!
Word to yo motha, foo.
Some entertainment just writes itself; I present to you, distinguished reader, these comments above as proof of that concept.